African Women in Tech

Paula: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Chatting With the Experts, where I speak with phenomenal women from Africa, from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora. The mission of this show is to educate women, to inspire women, to empower women globally, and my guests share the same mission with me.
Today, we have a very interesting episode, and we are gonna be talking about women in technology in Africa. My guest, who will join me in a few minutes, is Counsel and Senior Fellowship at the Geneva Center of Knowledge Governance. She’s also the co-founder of and currently Senior Research and Policy Advisor at the International Lawyers and Economists for Development.
That is [00:01:00] for development she probably gonna correct me on this, ilead.org, where she combines teaching and research with providing policy, legislative advice, and technical training to governments, intergovernmental organizations, and civil society while focusing mainly on intellectual property, IP, as well as trade, e-commerce, women economic empowerment, and development.
And with that, I want to welcome Dr. Susan Isiko Strba to Chatting With the Experts.
Dr Susan: Thank you, Paula, for having me. Dr.
Paula: Susan, your bio is so impressive. Oh, my word. When I met you, I was bowled away, and now I’m reading it again, I’m like, “Woo.”[00:02:00]
Dr Susan: Thank you.
Paula: Oh, my word. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much.
Dr Susan: Welcome. Thanks for inviting me.
Paula: Of course. Nice to see you. Of course.
Dr Susan: Yeah.
Paula: And I know we’re gonna be talking about a subject that is close to my heart and I know to yours, which is women-
Dr Susan: Of course, ’cause-
Paula: Yes …
Dr Susan: yeah.
Paula: And we’re gonna be talking about women in technology in Africa.
So with that, let’s talk about what does technology look like in Africa in the first place?
Dr Susan: I’ll give the short answer which you’ll find in most papers or most uh, international institutions and organizations. It’s bleak.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: That’s the short answer. Bleak because we have someone else, uh, defining it. But yes, it’s bleak if you compare to [00:03:00] Google, if you compare to Microsoft. But there is technology. That’s all I can tell you. So the technology in Africa is, uh, yes, especially to Africa, like a continent with many developing countries, but there is technology. You want a longer answer?
Paula: Yes, please give us a longer answer because that one sinks my heart. But I know there are reasons for us saying this.
Dr Susan: Look, I’ll take a step back. We are talking about women in technology. Mm-hmm. And I’ll start with something which doesn’t sound techy, so to say.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Africa is, is mainly an informal setting. I won’t say economy because Africa is not one country , it’s a continent.
Paula: It’s a continent.
Dr Susan: But yes, a lot of informality. And what does informality have to do? Meaning that people are not working in white-collar jobs. They are not in formal settings. They [00:04:00] survive with more like what my own, or my own work. But what does it have to do with women and technology? That, That informal sector takes up about 60 to 70% of the continent, and the women make up that informality. They occupy most of the informal sector. And that informal sector which sustains the continent is actually run by the women.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: 80 to 85%. Repeat that. 80 to 85%. Percent- Mm of the informal sector is run by the women.
Paula: Mm.
Dr Susan: Without counting agriculture, which is like known that’s where women are working, but other activities that bring in the GDP is the women. And then how do we connect that technology? It means this group of people cannot be ignored when you are talking about [00:05:00] development because technology, good technology, ’cause there’s good and bad, helps the development of the continent. So you can’t ignore those who are contributing 80 to 85% of the continent’s GDP.
Paula: So, Okay. You say 80 to 85 of the women, uh, of the, of the populace are women. Yes … and they’re contributing to most of the GDP. But… we know as Africans it’s a patriarchal society. So what are the implication for women in that? I mean, we may have, oc- occupy such a large percentage, but, mean, is it being reflected?
Dr Susan: So the implications is that the women have a church. Remember, you just mentioned this patriarch. So the men are and should be leading.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: But the [00:06:00] reality is when it comes to running the economy, much as the statistics won’t show because there’s the other thing, the women are not… their achievements are not recorded.
Paula: Mm.
Dr Susan: And that’s why they need to be involved in technology else, and hopefully record for themselves what is not being recorded by, by other people. Now there’s a saying that who is not around cannot be hurt by a tree. A tree cannot fall on the person who’s not there. So the men naturally record for themselves. But back to your question. The implication that these women who are holding the economy, who are contributing the economy, when we are talking of technology, they really need to have a grasp of it.
Paula: Yes.
Dr Susan: And that technology, it has levels. There is now we are talking of the woman who is working in the informal sector. So what kind of technology are we talking about? [00:07:00] The technology that will be useful. Precisely when you are talking of technology, there are different levels and definitions. And how we define it, how we look at it depends, Paula, on what we are trying to achieve. What problem we are trying to solve.
Let’s give an example. A woman who needs a drone on a big agriculture farm to measure weather or to communicate about the climate, that’s technology for her.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: A woman who needs to use her telephone to understand health data, that’s technology for her. You can say, “Oh, but um, the, the telephones are everywhere.”
Okay. If you don’t know that there are actually so many who don’t even have a telephone. That’s all technology. But a woman who [00:08:00] wants to use, who needs to use artificial intelligence-
Paula: Mm …
Dr Susan: to ask it a very high-tech question, that’s the technology for her. So they are different. You see the spectrum I’ve said from the informal-
Paula: yeah
Dr Susan: from the farm to the-
Paula: High tech
Dr Susan: … Maybe fifth industrial revolution. I don’t know what they call it, but that level. So we have women in all that spectrum.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Even in Africa.
Paula: So, with this research you’ve done, how can we? Because we are going from one end of the spectrum to the next .
Dr Susan: Mm-hmm
Paula: Okay, let’s start with, I don’t wanna say the bottom end. Let’s start with, because I said one end. The woman who’s using a drone for agriculture. Because a lot of our women are involved with agriculture, whether it’s industrialized or not, whatever the case.
Mm-hmm. Even if they have a small plot of land, it’s still [00:09:00] agriculture. How do we leverage that technology for women in that setting?
Dr Susan: It’s actually one of the things we’ve been, uh, working on recently at the ILaED. And I don’t mean to market myself, but this is a real example of something just being, being differently recently.
We have women who have gone… many of them have not even gone to the university. Mm-hmm. Let’s assume when you’re that level, you have a hand on technology, though this is debatable. They have their farms. They are doing different activities. And for them, what technology means is to be able to tell people about what they have on the farm or in the small industries, and how much they can sell, and what they can sell.
That’s technology. [00:10:00] And that comes with how you communicate to, call it social media, but could be other kinds of media. They need to understand how to manage that media. Here we’re talking of marketing, but you need the technology-
Paula: Mm-hmm …
Dr Susan: to help you do the marketing so that people buy those products or they come, and one is able to put food on the table, but also take their children to a decent school and keep them there.
That’s a very simple example. And we, we are working with women who are working things as basic as batiks.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: But they sell their designs. They show off their designs using this what will look like simple technology.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
So now, this is using, um… well, for them to even communicate about the products that they have in their farmland, they [00:11:00] need um, to be educated on, you know, as you said, how to communicate in an effective way.
Dr Susan: Yes.
Paula: So whether it’s by social media. So that’s another level.
Dr Susan: Yes.
Paula: How do they get that um, awareness? How do they get the knowledge on how to market on social media? ‘Cause social media is, could be there-
Dr Susan: Yeah
Paula: … but they need, like, even they even need the tools. Like, they need to have the, the phones to be able to access the social media apps. And then even when they access the social media apps, to be able to know how to even use it to market- Mm-hmm and create awareness.
Dr Susan: Thank you. That’s very, very pertinent question. One of the things that we teach, and many institutions and guys are teaching, is how to help people use the social media. ‘Cause most of this technology, they learn very obvious things like click forward on maybe WhatsApp.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Delete, whatever. But how to package them, how to [00:12:00] reformat a, a photo, for example.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Retouch it. Those are skills. But they are increasing the selling. Make the picture look better. How many people you send it? When you send it. Remember you’re talking about women. They might be running like, three jobs. So they are doing most of this me kind of thing, the technology, where technology’s really needed in the night. They don’t have much time. After they put everybody to bed, they f- you know, so they are tired. So we teach them how to do it quickly. Oh. How to do it quickly and intelligently. Things like schedule your posting.
After learning how to post, schedule them, like, for a whole month, that while you’re doing other things, for three weeks at least. They sell that they do themselves. They work while they are doing other… As, uh, people like to say, while you are [00:13:00] sleeping. They are not necessarily sleeping. Mm-hmm. But you’re not there.
Yes, so there’s that teaching. And talk of teaching, if I may go a bit further, uh, social media, there’s… now we get to the other spectrum of high-tech technology. For example, artificial intelligence. We also teach use, use it. How do you use it? Even before we are using, uh, Siri, now you have all kinds of people, how to use those to program certain things for you so that you don’t have to always do it.
They don’t have to do it and, you know- and, uh, waste time. By the way, you talked about patriarch society. Not all men are happy to see a woman who is fixed on the telephone. Mm. So these kind of gadgets and technology is also to help them to still keep the peace at home- Mm … and advance the same moment.
Paula: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. [00:14:00] So it comes down to sometimes not just understanding the culture, understanding the cultural norms within, you know, uh, Africa, as we said, is a, is a big continent.
Dr Susan: Yeah.
Paula: So getting familiar with how things work in different countries and even in different, um, societies or environments within the same country.
Dr Susan: Yes.
Paula: That’s in itself, in itself is complex and complicated, you know? Um, because there’s, there’s some, um, communities where I guess it’s, it’s, it’s almost like, um- you, culturally you may be changing the, the whole family setup by making these women even more industrious and, uh, they’re more tech-savvy.
Because many times technology is looked at as like something that the men know or the children know sometimes. They’re not… The women are kinda left out, you know?
Dr Susan: Yeah. Exactly. Actually back again to how [00:15:00] does technology look like, most, uh, uh, opportunities in technology are to men. Those that are streamlined, like government is doing it, every known institution is doing it.
But then women have, um, are also coming up to help each other. But, and you also have institutions like, for example, Ernst & Young. You have Mastercard Foundation.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Uh, Even the um, regional organizations like the African Union, they have uh, specific programs to teach women in technology. But as I said, these are streamlined. They are policy. They are big institutions. They may not reach my mother deep in the village or your grandparents, I don’t know where. So there it’s, you have, you need visionary women who are there to help other women come up. [00:16:00] And they are, they exist. And one of the things I could, for example, now if you get back to the big technology- Mm-hmm
the, the, the other end of the spectrum, uh, artificial intelligence, for example.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: We have women who are working with, uh, communities. DAIR, D-A-I-R.
Paula: Okay. D-A- I … I-R. Okay.
Dr Susan: Yeah. It’s Distributed Artificial Intelligence Research Institute.
Paula: Distributed Artificial Intelligence Research. Okay.
Dr Susan: Yeah. So they’re working on technology. They are building models, artificial intelligence models in Africa-
Paula: Okay
Dr Susan: … for uh, disadvantaged communities. And women are the first on the radar because artificial intelligence, I don’t want to go into deep into the nuances. But it’s a technology which is like it [00:17:00] looks like it’s owned by the West, by Google, by Microsoft, by…
And there are challenges when it comes to African society. Not only Africa. The fact that it’s developed outside. There are so many things that are not taken into account- Mm-hmm … that are specific to Africa. Our languages, the culture of even just women. Women, how they dress, how they speak certain things, certain information that is divulged when it shouldn’t be.
A relationship with, between parents and children, so that’s about education. And it’s a role, you’ll agree with me, of… it’s not a role but it has an unwritten kind of law that women do the first training or teaching, educating of the children.
Paula: Oh, yes.
Dr Susan: Yes. And even when they become men and they get out of the house, the woman continues to educate.
So you have this technology that is developed elsewhere that [00:18:00] does not cater to that. Mm-hmm. So on the continent you also have women who are coming up saying, “We have to develop our own models.” Mm-hmm. We don’t need to always have large language models like it has been preached to be able to develop artificial intelligence that caters to our own needs.
And it is sensitive, if at all artificial intelligence is sensitive, to our culture.
Paula: Yes.
Dr Susan: So there is one of, just an example I’ve given. There is, uh, a noodle license. Noodle like the food. N-O-O- Okay. N-O-D noodle. D-D-L?
Paula: N-O-O-D-L-E. Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Yeah, it’s about how you use, uh, artificial intelligence. The data you get to develop and how uh, you, you focus it to the African continent but be careful who else can access it. [00:19:00] So those are just, uh, I’m giving just summary ’cause I don’t want to get into the details of…
Paula: Absolutely.
Dr Susan: Yeah. And that’s to do with how intellectual property works, how commerce works, how then the artificial intelligence comes in. But it’s women who are championing this.
Paula: That, that, that, That encourages me. Uh, my heart sings as I hear that, that women are championing this, and these are women-
Dr Susan: African …
Paula: African women.
Dr Susan: African women … on African continent.
Paula: Yes. So African women are championing it on the African continent.
Dr Susan: Yes.
Paula: Oh, that makes my heart sing. Yes. Oh my God. uh, Because you know, as I’m thinking that, of course, as you said, um, programming it to suit the culture, to suit the-
Dr Susan: Exactly
Paula: … people, to suit the different, I mean, because there are many different languages, is imperative- Mm … for it to be able to be used in some disadvantaged, and even some of the, um, in the cities themselves, you know?
Dr Susan: Yes.
Paula: Uh, and, and, and many times it has to be [00:20:00] championed by people that they can relate to, people who they look like-
Dr Susan: Exactly
Paula: … who can understand their cultures, and
Dr Susan: Mm-hmm …
Paula: who they’re comfortable with. The recipients of it- Yes … are comfortable with the, with the teachers Okay. So, um, I’m looking at time.
Um, Oh, boy. This is deep. This is really deep. So what about collaborations? I mean, Are there a lot of collaborations between, um, you know, like, yeah, we talked about disadvantaged, um, communities within the continent, which are within countries within the continent, and those who are championing it.
Those who are championing, uh, uh, championing it, can’t say that word today, they are collaborating, if I may ask, with Western, uh, with the big companies, the big tech companies, and then bringing it, teaching, I mean, others to now take it and run and bring it to these disadvantaged communities, or even… I mean, tell me more about that, the collaboration that are within and beyond borders that we see.
Dr Susan: Yeah. You, you see For any thing that is worthy of a name [00:21:00] or recognition, it’s not only the energy and the knowledge that is spent. There’s the brain. I mean, There’s the money. You know, There’s an African saying that, “If you want to go fast, you go alone.” Mm-hmm. “If you want to go far- What do you do?
Paula: You bring others on. You go together.
Dr Susan: You bring others. You go together. And yes, collaboration is very, very important. We have spoken of languages. I’ve spoken of educational culture. Uh, I’ve spoken of women. There’s reproduction, which, uh, we shy of to speak. There are different ways. Mm-hmm. That’s one, is collaborating.
Imagine someone in East Africa. I’m from East Africa, so forgive me if I speak of East Africa. Mm. But they want to produce a product that is relevant also to West Africa.
Paula: Mm.
Dr Susan: Now we are talking in terms of, uh, artificial intelligence. You have to understand how things are done in [00:22:00] Nigeria-
Paula: Yes …
Dr Susan: what this means. And then you have the different language models. Languages, sorry, not models, coming up to achieve they are trained to speak a language or to speak to express things that is culturally acceptable. That’s one. But then there’s the other thing I mentioned about funding. So yes, there’s needs to be a collaboration between the researchers who are researching these models, for example, I mentioned there, and the users of those models, and the funders, ’cause there’s not always the enough money in one person’s pocket.
So there can be this collaboration or funding collaboration. Financing collaborations can be between the local institutions or startups. There are so, so many startups, by the way, in the field of AI [00:23:00] in Africa and foreign, but there are challenges there as to who owns data, and you want data privacy.
That’s another topic for another day. But there are also possibility of collaborations between member states, countries. Uganda with Nigeria, South Africa. Under, for example, the African Continental Free Trade Area. They are working a lot on this. And under that framework, there’s actual ready focus on women economic empowerment, so it makes it easy.
And now technology and electronic commerce But yes, you also have local institutions like, I come back to there, so we’ve already mentioned it’s a different… It’s an easy example. They are collaborating with, uh, with, uh, institutions in North America and Europe to do research, but for disadvantaged communities, not for [00:24:00] the streamlined American or Swiss.
Paula: Yes.
Needed. Absolutely needed, you know, um- Yeah … to work with the disadvantaged communities because there are lots of geniuses there.
Dr Susan: Yeah.
Paula: Lots of untapped talent there-
Dr Susan: Yeah …
Paula: that you discover when you, you know, you actually have, uh, um, people from the streamlined communities going into these communities and-
Dr Susan: Yeah
uh,
Paula: uh, and teaching and making people aware of what is happening-
Dr Susan: Yeah …
Paula: beyond their community. My gosh, Susan, I, there’s so many questions I can ask you, but, um, in terms of time, um, I will leave it open for those who have joined us in the audience. But for those looking online, if we wanna hear more about, if they want to know more about what you do, how can they get in touch with you?
Dr Susan: Uh, they can use, uh- from professional-
Paula: Professional …
Dr Susan: which I have two hats, you read there. [00:25:00] So for the, my professional, you can contact me by email on, uh, susan.isikostrba@thegraduateinstitute. It’s a mouthful. So that- That’s it. [email protected]
Paula: Institute, I’m writing that down. We’ll put it in the chat. .ch, okay. All
Dr Susan: right. And for the charity, which, uh, is International Lawyers and Economists for Development, the ILAED, where we support women economic empowerment, that’s, uh, ilaed.org
Paula: Okay. I’ll drop that in the chat
Dr Susan: @
gmail.com
Paula: Okay.
Dr Susan: Yeah.
Paula: And, uh, are you on any of the social media platforms-
Dr Susan: Yes
Paula: like
Dr Susan: LinkedIn? We’re on LinkedIn.
Paula: Mm-hmm.
Dr Susan: Uh, X.
Paula: Okay.
Dr Susan: Facebook-
Paula: Okay
Dr Susan: … and [00:26:00] Instagram.
Paula: All right. I’ll drop all of that in the chat for those who would-
Dr Susan: Yeah
Paula: … love to hear even more, um, and find out more about you and what you’re doing, the impactful work you’re doing for women- Thank you … empowerment. And for me, I want you to know, um, if you’d like to be a guest on the show, like Dr. Susan has been, please reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com. I’m also on LinkedIn. Uh, my business page there is Chatting With the Experts, so you can message me on my profile, which is Paula Okonneh. I am on Instagram and my handle there is
@chat_experts_podcast. And, um, Facebook, my business page, Chatting With the Experts. And last but not least, please subscribe to our YouTube channel where you listen and you can listen if you want. And you can view the incredible women, just like Dr. Susan here, and all the work that they are doing [00:27:00] to educate, empower, and encourage and also inspire women globally.
Thank you so much … Dr. Susan, for this conversation. Very, very, Very informative. And now let’s open up the floor for those who joined us so that they can have an opportunity to talk even more with you and get to know you better, and you get to know them as well. Thank you so much.
Dr Susan: Thank you.