Today, I have a special bonus episode that you won’t want to miss. It features an extraordinary guest who will uplift your spirit, ignite your passion, and provide valuable insights for success.
In this captivating conversation, I had the privilege of chatting with Pamela Lou-Hing, a true leadership growth expert, speaker, and thought leader. With over 40 years of sales experience, including a remarkable tenure as a director with Mary Kay Cosmetics, Pamela’s wisdom is second to none. Her diverse knowledge base brings a unique perspective to the challenges teams face and the opportunities for growth.
Pamela’s journey is a testament to resilience and determination. After encountering unexpected career shifts, she found her calling as a certified Christian life coach. For the past 12 years, she has been transforming lives and helping women build their coaching businesses with confidence and ease.
During our conversation, Pamela shared her personal experiences, triumphs, and lessons learned. She discussed the importance of clarity, self-awareness, and the power of mentorship. By listening to this episode, you’ll gain practical strategies for success, discover how to overcome challenges, and find inspiration to pursue your dreams.
One remarkable success story highlighted in this episode involves a woman who, amidst heart-wrenching loss, found her purpose and became a grief coach. Through Pamela’s guidance, she not only rebuilt her life but also made a profound impact on others who were going through similar struggles. It’s a testament to the transformative power of coaching and mentorship.
If you’re seeking work-life balance and looking to avoid burnout, Pamela’s insights are invaluable. She shares the “CARE Method” that encompasses assessing your habits, adding new practices for efficiency, repositioning yourself for success, and eliminating anything that no longer serves you. These tips will help you navigate life’s challenges with grace and intention.
To experience this powerful conversation firsthand, click play and dive into the full episode . Whether you’re an immigrant woman, a business professional, or simply someone seeking inspiration, this episode has something for everyone.
Don’t miss out on the opportunity to learn from Pamela’s wealth of knowledge, captivating storytelling, and empowering advice. Tune in now and let her wisdom guide you on your journey to success, fulfillment, and personal growth.
Quotes From Pamela
- “The key to finding work-life balance is not in doing more but in aligning your actions with your priorities.”
- “Coaching and mentorship have the power to transform lives and help individuals unleash their full potential.”
- Clarity and self-awareness are essential for achieving success and navigating life’s challenges with intention.”
Social Media Links:
[00:00:00] Paula: Hi everyone. I am Paula Okonneh the host of Chatting with the Experts, which is a podcast for immigrant women from Africa and the Caribbean who have relocated to Europe, North America now live in the UK, in fact, they live everywhere outside of the country of birth. In this podcast, typically we talk about our struggles because I’m an immigrant woman as well, but we also highlight the things that we have triumphed while sharing resources and experiences that our fellow immigrant sisters can benefit from. Today, however, is a bonus episode, and I’ll be talking with a fellow African-American woman who I know from Charlotte, and I’ll tell you more about her.
[00:00:46] Paula: I have the privilege of introducing a leadership growth expert, a speaker, and a thought leader.
[00:00:53] Paula: She’s had over 40 years experience in sales and was a director with Mary Kay Cosmetics for 10 years. This speaker’s work is influenced by her diverse knowledge base, while providing a broad perspective to the challenges that teams face, but also the opportunities for growth. She delivers practical application with a holistic view while engaging equipment and empowering her audience with intriguing stories and humor.
[00:01:25] Paula: Please help me. Welcome to this bonus episode of Chatting with the Experts, Pamela Lou- Hing.
[00:01:34] Pamela: Hello. Hello. Hello, Paula. Thank you so much for this wonderful invitation. I’m so glad to be with you today.
[00:01:42] Paula: Thank you so much. And I always say to ’em, my guests, thank you for saying yes. I couldn’t do this without you.
[00:01:50] Paula: So today I’m gonna ask you to tell us a bit about your background and how you became involved in your current business.
[00:01:58] Pamela: Yes. So as you’ve shared, I have over 40 years in sales, and so after my tenure with sales, I was hired by a college, a local college there in Charlotte, and they hired me to be a business development specialist.
[00:02:15] Pamela: So two years into that role, the Lord then downloaded and sent me in a different direction. And what was that direction? The president of that particular college decided to sever a third party relationship with a third party company that was responsible for our enrollment, our recruitment, and our marketing of the programs there without a plan in place, Paula.
[00:02:38] Pamela: And so the Lord tapped me and said, you do it. And you know, I was sitting there saying, my goodness me, I had never done anything of that magnitude. However, I did realize that I had a strong acumen for strategic planning, and so I went into planning mode and I created a new organizational chart ,created the direction for the new program that we needed to build, and I submitted it to the president and it was accepted.
[00:03:09] Pamela: I put my name in it as a director. And so after 10 months of being in that position, a new sheriff came to town, a new VP, and I was downsized for yet the third time, I found myself in a position. I was a single mom at the time. I had my son who was a senior in high school and I had bumped my head, Paula. I also had a, uh, kindergartner as well.
[00:03:34] Pamela: So I had a senior in high school and a little, my daughter was in kindergarten and I was a single mom.
[00:03:40] Paula: Oh, wow.
[00:03:40] Pamela: Right? And so I said, Lord, what’s next for me? What’s next? And that’s when, you know, I began to really look at my life and all that I had done in my life. And there was a common theme. And that common thing was that I always inspired and empowered others.
[00:03:59] Pamela: I always look for the, the greatness and the brilliance in others and helped them bring that to fruition. That was just a part of who I was ever since I was a kid, and so I became a certified Christian life coach from there, and I’ve been at this ever since for 12 years now.
[00:04:17] Paula: 12 years.
[00:04:19] Pamela: Yes, 12 years.
[00:04:22] Paula: Wow.
[00:04:22] Paula: Wow.
[00:04:24] Paula: So having been in business for 12 years, can you talk about some of the challenges that you have faced along the way? And also tell us how you overcame them because, 12 years. I mean, definitely some things have happened.
[00:04:37] Pamela: Oh my. How much time do we have, Paula? How much time? So what, oh,
[00:04:47] Paula: it looks like it’s been quite a bumpy road, huh?
[00:04:49] Pamela: Well, you know, it’s been filled with joys, it’s been filled with laughter, it’s been filled with a lot of growth and some pain. So you have a mixture there. Okay. But that’s called life, right? And so, I am now the owner of Powerhouse Unlimited L L C, and we help women who are overwhelmed with building their online businesses, find their voices, tell their stories, and market and sell their products and services so that they can coach with confidence and build their businesses with ease.
[00:05:26] Pamela: And so, It has not always been that way. I have not always been that clear. I told you for the last 12 years. Right. So I would say the first nine years of being in business, I served a lot of people. I’ve served men, I’ve served women, I’ve served brick and mortar businesses. I act as a consultant to businesses because I’ve been 12 years as a certified life coach.
[00:05:48] Pamela: But I’ve been in business, Paula since I was a little girl. And so my first business was a little lemonade stand. In my mommy’s driveway or, or I, we didn’t even have a driveway at that time. It was actually on the sidewalk right of our home and Okay. You know, it went from there to selling water systems.
[00:06:08] Pamela: And then of course, being a director of Mary Kay Cosmetics. And I’ve had many, many other types of businesses. And so this business though, I have found the greatest satisfaction. Why? Because what I can impact, A coach, a woman coach, and of course she has been given a certain purpose. God has given her a certain purpose in her life of people, and he’s assigned people to her to impact.
[00:06:32] Pamela: And when I can teach her how to do that most effectively and make it easier for her, I cannot tell you how good that feels, and I know that I am operating in what God is calling me to do. So some of the things that I’ve learned during this tenure in my business is that. Clarity is queen. We’ve gotta get clear on whatever it is we need to do, because I’ll be honest with you, as I shared the first nine years, I really, I was challenged, I was challenged with focus, and I never really realized how challenged I really was.
[00:07:12] Pamela: However, I remember being in Charlotte and I had gone to, if anyone knows about the score, if you’ve ever heard of score, it’s retired executives and it’s a federal program, and you can go and you can learn all about business. Well, I went there and one of the men there, financially, he’s done very, very well.
[00:07:31] Pamela: And my mentor called him in and we were sitting there and after talking he said, Pam, you’re not focused. And I’m thinking, me not focus, Paula, not me. Of all people. I run organizations, I lead, I develop, I strategize. I, I, I, I was not focused. Right. And so with that, I went home and I was really upset. I, I could have been upset with him, but I, I couldn’t be upset with him, right?
[00:08:03] Pamela: Because he was just, he just told me what he experienced with me and I really. Realized that I had a deficiency and my deficiency, my deficit, or the disorder that I have been diagnosed with this A D H, ADHD and Oh yes, yes. And so in business we have got to understand our rhythm. We’ve gotta get clear and we have to realize if we are working with some type of deficiency or disability, and I never realized how much that really impacted my life.
[00:08:36] Pamela: So you asked what I’ve been challenged with. I think that probably has been the greatest challenge, but that’s why I can share. We really have to ask ourselves, where are we, you know? And take a good assessment of where we are personally first in business.
[00:08:52] Paula: That’s a good point. That brings me to the next question.
[00:08:56] Paula: So now you talked about a challenge you had in coming to acceptance. I think that’s the word I’m looking for, the acceptance at. Right. This is a challenge. This is a personal challenge, but I can overcome it and I can work with it, but I can actually use it as a stepping stone to help others, people who are going through similar things.
[00:09:14] Paula: Like me. So do you have a, like a specific success story about someone who you were able to help based either on what you just spoke about or on
[00:09:25] Paula: something else?
[00:09:26] Pamela: Yes, yes, yes. So it’s interesting that you asked that question because you know, I had to think about that in terms of my impact right now, the deficiency that I shared with you, the diagnoses.
[00:09:40] Pamela: I’ve accepted the deficiency, but I haven’t accepted the diagnosis. Cause I said, you know what? I gotta overcome this. And so I had to put time management protocols in place to help me manage my time better. Because when we’re not focused, we have to focus on time. That’s where we need to be. Right. Um, so in terms of people who I’ve helped, It’s interesting because you know, as Christians we’re the last to toot our own horns.
[00:10:06] Pamela: Right? But in business and in kingdom business, we have to share what God has done and how God has used us. Amen. That, yes. Yes. And we must be vocal about it and it’s okay because we are God’s mouthpieces on this earth, right? Yes. And so in terms of the people whom I’ve helped, I’m trying to think of one in particular.
[00:10:30] Pamela: Is
[00:10:31] Paula: it because there’s so many, which is good.
[00:10:34] Pamela: Honestly, it’s very good. And you asked me relative to the challenge that I. With the deficiency, not so much that, but the business itself and coaching and helping women develop their coaching businesses. What I have found, because I hold courses and I have classes, and so my classes are focused on helping women build their coaching businesses, but also become speakers and authors.
[00:11:02] Pamela: And so my last cohort that I had, And one in particular. She came in and, and you know, she had been praying for that something and she had lost her son a couple years ago to a tragic accident. And she has been trying to find her way and like asking God, God, what is it that I’m to do as a result of this tragic experience?
[00:11:29] Pamela: And not only did she lose him, she lost her sister a few months prior to that. Then another family member before that. So it happened back to back for her, and she’s also an associate pastor of her church. And she said, God, what is it that you want me to do? And so she came into the cohort and to see her at the very beginning and then 12 weeks later to see what she had developed.
[00:12:00] Pamela: And God had really down poured into her. Was magnificent. As a result of the 12 week course, she was able to really identify what God was calling her to do and that was to become a grief coach. So I helped her to build her grief coaching business, and the growth that I saw in her was absolutely amazing, and she’s continuing to move on.
[00:12:26] Pamela: Now. God is taking her onto platforms and to churches and to other places. Even corporate and nonprofit organizations to help those who grieve. And as you know, grief comes in many forms. So that’s one of the, I would say, success stories, if you will. So that’s what it’s all about. You know, Paula, I, I am not just a coach teaching you how to coach.
[00:12:53] Pamela: You get so much more. What do you get when I work with you? When I work with you, you get personal development. That’s number one. Because as a coach, we absolutely must invest in self-development because if we’re not growing, we’re dying. And so with that personal development, coaching, how to coach and how to build a business, entrepreneurship as well as leadership.
[00:13:19] Pamela: So those are the four pillars upon which I have built our organization. So when women come, they come for coaching, but they leave with so much
[00:13:30] Pamela: more.
[00:13:31] Paula: I can hear that you speak loud and clear and. Just looking at you. I can see, I mean, this example you picked was based on the question I asked you, but it’s also like in some ways a lived experience and a lived experience can propel us to do so much because there’s compassion, there’s empathy, and there’s authenticity all wrapped up in that, you know, and so I love what you did in. helping that woman who had gone through so much loss realize that there’s a gain still in what she lost because now she’s helping so many, I know she’s impacted so many lives through all that she’d been through.
[00:14:11] Pamela: Yes.
[00:14:12] Paula: And then as you talked about, your four pillars, your four pillars, from what I can see are built on strong business principles, but also built on who Pamela is and what she stands for.
[00:14:22] Pamela: That’s right. That’s right. That’s what it’s all about.
[00:14:26] Paula: Yes, yes. We talked about the four pillars. Part of what you do, I’m assuming that you also provide mentorship and mentorship. You encourage mentorship and networking to play a part in the people that you coach. Because you coach men and women, I’m inclined to say women, but you coach both men and women.
[00:14:52] Paula: Is that true? I mean, do you encourage mentors? Are you a mentor? And what would you say about networking being part of the success of a small business person’s business plan? Not plan per se, but part of the success of any small business. I don’t know if I’m making myself clear.
[00:15:16] Pamela: You are making yourself very clear and what I want to say to you, Paula, is that you have just uncovered within that question the golden secret to success, and that is mentorship.
[00:15:29] Pamela: Identifying the right mentor. I am sitting here with you today because of the people that have come before me and have mentored me, have poured into me the experiences I’ve had with those individuals. I could not be sitting here today. So, you know, Bishop Desmond Tutu said this once, and I’ve said this ever since I was a young woman in a pageant when I was a teenager, and he says, ” To stand out in a crowd only means that you’re standing on the shoulders of others”..
[00:16:02] Paula: Powerful. Say that again.
[00:16:04] Pamela: To stand out in a crowd only means that you are standing on the shoulders of others. Bishop Desmond Tutu, and I will tell you that I stand on so many shoulders, some that.
[00:16:22] Pamela: You know, God has said, has sent to me and some I have sought out because God has led me. And so that’s the first thing. We wanna be prayerful. And I have a coach myself, so I am a coach and I do coach women. However, I have a coach and my coach is stretching me like none other Paula. And you know the interesting thing about that in the word.
[00:16:49] Pamela: The word tells us about pouring new wine into old wine skin, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. And we know what happens when that occurs, that we cannot expect that it’s going to hold it. And so, yes. What happens as a result of learning something new? Our minds are expanded never to return. And in that we have to, I say, train our eyes to see what’s in front of us and discipline our minds to seize each moment.
[00:17:21] Pamela: But we can only do that when we put ourselves in places that we can achieve that. And so with mentoring, it’s so important that you, number one, know what your needs are. So really, you know, sitting down and say, okay, what is my goal and what is it that I really need? And write that down, right? So you write that down, you assess what you need, you pray about it and ask God to show you who should be a mentor to you.
[00:17:52] Pamela: So I would always suggest to identify someone in your industry. Because they have that experience, right? To share. Mm-hmm. The knowledge. Mm-hmm. And the one thing that we really, really need to be successful is someone who’s been there and done that, who’s able to share some things with you to decrease the learning curve.
[00:18:12] Pamela: Right. And to really help you show up and be successful. That’s one of the concepts that I encourage, or one of the strategies that I encourage when I talk about developing self. You know, so we read. I would encourage reading and, and again, finding a mentor, someone who can help you .
[00:18:33] Paula: Reading and finding a mentor.
[00:18:37] Paula: Lovely. A lot of people need to know that, you know, some people believe that, you know, they could do it all by themself.
[00:18:43] Pamela: That’s right.
[00:18:44] Paula: There’s no self-made person. That’s the quote you said earlier on, that any success you succeed is because someone prepared the ground for you in one way or the other.
[00:18:54] Pamela: That’s right. That’s right.
[00:18:56] Paula: And we should be grateful even for those people that we don’t know. Mm-hmm. Grateful for where we are because somebody pioneered that journey.
[00:19:05] Pamela: Yes. Yes. And when you do find your mentor, I would say, Paula,
[00:19:09] Pamela: make sure that you nurture the relationship. Mm-hmm. So they’re there to share with us, right?
[00:19:17] Pamela: To share their experiences with us. Once we do determine where it is we wanna go and we share that with them, but then nurture that relationship. You know, send handwritten notes, send them an email every now and then and say, Hey, I’m thinking about you, and if there’s a way that I can be of service to you, even to the mentor, because we just never know where that relationship will go.
[00:19:40] Paula: Yeah. And as you say, you don’t know what people are going through. Many times they put on that professional face. They may be your mentor, but they’ve got personal lives and that’s something that, you know, COVID kinda showed us. I do a lot of my shows online now live, but for a long time recorded, but. The more I interacted with people online during Covid, the more I saw that barrier fall down between the professional life and the personal life.
[00:20:09] Paula: Because we are all human beings and there’s certain things that happen that, you know, if you are working out of the home, people may not see, if you have an ill parent or ill child or a pet that’s healthy, you know, just show up. That’s because they’re part of our lives. That’s right. So, yeah. Ooh. Look out for your mentors.
[00:20:30] Paula: Don’t just take, give as well. Okay. And so the last question I have for you, because I mean, I’m enjoying this so much and I’m sure others are as well. Are there any tips that you can share for managing work-life balance and. Avoiding burnout, because that’s something I see, especially among the younger generation, you know, their recognition in a positive way of knowing that work-life balance matters.
[00:21:00] Paula: It matters even more so today, because we have so many stressors, outside stressors, things that we don’t invite, but they invite themselves into our journey, right? And so, yes. I have found Paula, and even as I work on my own work-life balance, it is work and it’s a constant intention. So we have to be intentional about work-life balance and really understanding what does it mean to us, first of all, you know, assessing where we are and then our families, because that’s the core.
[00:21:41] Paula: That’s our core of movement, right? It’s us, it’s our families, and then outside. And so it’s important to understand where you are and being intentional about really assessing that. And the other thing is to really know your rhythm. What is your rhythm? How do you need to flow? Especially if you’re a business owner.
[00:22:03] Paula: Uh, it’s so critical to know when you do your best work, when you need rest. When you need a mentor, when you need knowledge. So to be self-aware I would say is key to work-life balance, being self-aware and time management. So time management as I am working on that even today as we speak, because again, uh, it takes extra.
[00:22:30] Paula: Effort for me. Some people, it may not take extra effort, but for me it takes extra effort. So I wish you could see the board here in my office because I’ve done a brain dump on that board because my mind never shuts off from that brain dump. Then I take and I put into a project management sheet, and so I compartmentalize those activities and then I drill down to figure out what I need to do.
[00:22:59] Paula: In those major buckets and who do I need to help me in those major buckets? And that’s when we begin to delegate, right? So we’re delegating some of that work. So, and we talk work-life balance, realizing that we can’t be everywhere at the same time. And so it’s important to know what we can do, what our capacity is, and then delegate the others.
[00:23:25] Paula: And then I’d like to offer in closing a method that I created, and it’s called the Care Method
[00:23:32] Paula: The care Method, okay.
[00:23:34] Paula: And it’s just as it sounds, C a e,
[00:23:38] Paula: writing it
[00:23:39] Pamela: down. Yes. So the care method, I want you to use this care method in every aspect of your life. That means your habits to assess every area of your life.
[00:23:52] Pamela: When I talked about self-reflection and starting there, when you’re looking at work-life balance, it’s always important to start with self use the care method to help you work through it. You look at your habits, you look at your behaviors, your attitudes, your activities, people, and your life, every aspect of your life.
[00:24:16] Pamela: So the C is for continue, so you ask yourself, After you have really looked at your life and your habits, you go through it with each of those things, your habits, behaviors, attitudes, people, circumstances, and say, what is it that I wanna continue doing that’s serving me well? What is it that I need to continue to do that is serving me well?
[00:24:40] Pamela: So that’s continue. That’s the C and care
[00:24:44] Paula: loving it already.
[00:24:46] Pamela: The A is add. So what do I need to add to what I’m doing to be more effective and efficient in what I do on a daily basis? What do I need to add? So when I say that perhaps we know that we need to exercise. And that’s a part of the self-assessment.
[00:25:10] Pamela: When we look at our lives, we look at our lives. I always encourage Paula. Now this goes into a different training, but it’s a part of the training, and that means there’s seven areas, seven essentials of life. They are mind, body, and soul. Right? So in the mind there is the financial, there’s the emotional, the psychological, and the intellectual.
[00:25:32] Pamela: Okay, so the psychological mm-hmm. The intellectual. The financial and the emotional, all of those are in the mind. The body is the physical, so we gotta make sure that we get to the doctors, we gotta make sure that we’re taking care of ourselves, exercise, eat well, right? And then the social, our connections with others, getting those mentors that you talked about earlier.
[00:25:57] Pamela: Right, our connections. And then lastly, it’s last but not least, but most important spiritual. Yes. And that’s the foundation upon which all of the others stand. So where are we spiritually? Do we speak it? Do we walk it? Do we study it? Do we read it? Are we it? Right. So with that being said, when I talked about add, what do we need to add and is it, as we look at those seven essentials of life exercise daily to be more healthy, do we need to read more?
[00:26:33] Pamela: Do we need to look at our finances every day in order to build our wealth? Right? Psychologically, and this is really important today, Paula. How are we taking care of ourselves psychologically? How are we processing our thoughts and real big emotional management? Huge. Yes. And are we taking care of ourselves?
[00:26:54] Pamela: Are we getting therapy? If we need therapy, it’s okay. I have a therapist. I met with her this morning as a matter of fact, and I’m proud of it. And I’m grateful for her cuz she blesses my life.
[00:27:04] Paula: Amen. Yep. Right. Therapy. It’s, I mean, Important. Very, very important. In the world we live in. That’s
[00:27:12] Pamela: right. That’s right.
[00:27:13] Pamela: Self-care. So that’s the A. The R is reposition.
[00:27:18] Paula: Reposition,
[00:27:19] Pamela: reposition. So what do I mean by that? Perhaps? And we use exercise, for instance. Perhaps we have started an exercise routine, but we find that it kind of throws off our day because we. Maybe I’m trying to do it at night and we’re tired by the end of the day and it’s really not serving us the best that it could.
[00:27:43] Pamela: So they say, okay, well let me try the morning. So that means that I’m gonna have to get up a little bit earlier in the morning so I can go through my routine, you know, do my meditation, prayer, and get my exercise in to get my day started. That’s repositioning. So it’s something that you’re doing. But you may need to put it in a different place in your life in order for it to work more effectively.
[00:28:05] Pamela: People, perhaps people, perhaps their relationships that you have acquired or nurtured, and those relationships you find are not benefiting you as much as they should or serving you well, and it’s no longer a mutually beneficial situation. It’s okay to reposition. What does that mean? That means that I will not talk to you every single day.
[00:28:32] Pamela: I may check in on you, you know, once a week or once a month, depending on that relationship. But when I talk to you, it’s exhausting, right? And it’s okay to reposition that relationship. Maybe they have different goals or you know, they’re in a different direction and it’s okay. And that’s one thing I learned in business, you have to align yourself with people who are where you wanna go or are working toward that end.
[00:29:00] Pamela: If not, we need to reposition them and it’s okay to reposition. I
[00:29:05] Paula: love it. I love it. And then e eliminate.
[00:29:09] Pamela: Eliminate some things we do, habits, behaviors, attitudes. People no longer serve us well and we need to say goodbye and it’s okay. So that’s clear. It is. Okay. Clear method. Mm-hmm.
[00:29:26] Paula: I love that. It’s easy and it addresses every aspect of us as a human being.
[00:29:33] Paula: I love it. Great. Are you on any social media platforms? Are you on LinkedIn, social
[00:29:40] Pamela: media? I sure am. Yes, I am on LinkedIn. You can find me under Pamela Lou, and we also have Powerhouse in Motion. That’s the business page there. You can find me at www.powerhouseinmotion.com. Powerhouse motion.com. So they can find that if they just visit powerhouse in motion.com and go to Free Masterclass, they will be able to find all of the upcoming trainings and register for them.
[00:30:09] Pamela: And then of course, Instagram. And that’s P Lou, p l u e h i n g on Instagram.
[00:30:18] Paula: Thank you so much, and if you enjoyed what you just heard from Pamela Luing, please head over to Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, or anywhere you listen to podcasts and click subscribe. I know this show typically for immigrant women, but if you are not an immigrant woman, but you’re a woman and you want to impact lives, not just women from Africa and the Caribbean, please send me a note on my website, which is, Chatting with the experts and just go to the contact page so that you can send me a note there and let’s chat.
[00:30:55] Paula: Thank you again, Pamela, for saying yes. I’ve enjoyed these 30 minutes. They went by a bit too quickly for me. Thank you.
[00:31:05] Pamela: Oh, I’ve enjoyed it so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me to share today.