Empowering Digital and Financial Literacy in East Africa

[00:00:00] Paula: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts TV show. I am the host Paula Okonneh, and every week I bring to you amazing women, well, mainly women that have had a few men, and these women are from Africa, the Caribbean and the Diaspora. The mission of this [00:01:00] show is that at the end of the show, you, my viewers and listeners, because I make this a podcast as well, would have gained something. You would have been inspired by my guest, educated by my guest, or empowered by my guest. Today we’ll be talking about the conversation with, or I’m going to be having a conversation with a tech startup co founder. She is from Kenya. And I’ll tell you a little bit about her before I ask her to introduce herself.
[00:01:40] Paula: She is an entrepreneur shaping the future of East Africa by redefining the boundaries of tech entrepreneurship with the purpose and passion of developing innovative solutions, which in turn will create a meaningful and [00:02:00] lasting impact on digital literacy. Her name is Leah Kanyi. And she will be joining me in a few minutes. Welcome, Leah, to Chatting with the Experts.
[00:02:22] Leah: Hello. Hi. Hello, Paula. Hi, everyone. My name is Leah Kanyi. Yes, the girl from East Africa. I’m very honored to be here on your podcast. Thank you for having me.
[00:02:35] Paula: Absolutely. I was so thrilled when I spoke with you and I realized that there’s so much happening in this part of the world, East Africa, that we don’t probably know about. And so that’s one of the things that you were going to talk about, like, for example, what inspired you to be part of a tech startup?
[00:02:57] Leah: I would say since I was a young girl, [00:03:00] I definitely wanted to take the entrepreneurship route, but I did not have a clear idea of what that would be when I grow up. When I was in university pursuing my degree in entrepreneurship, I wanted to see what opportunities there are in terms of how we can use tech, in order to solve solution, solve problems in our communities that can be Innovative solutions that will be able to last and make an impact in our society. So in the long run, I was not a tech person, but I was able to look for people who knew about tech, and I got introduced to the world of tech in 2018. And I had my first startup then, it was a food delivery companies for mobile application. I had a business partner and we did that for about two years and we learned a lot about, you know, working with tech and finding the right tech for the right market. And now fast forward in 2023 and 2024, I’m now working on another tech solution in financial literacy across East Africa. So my inspiration is just [00:04:00] being, I’m wanting to see problems being solved in a way that is innovative, that is also making an impact in our society.
[00:04:07] Paula: Fabulous. I love it. I really do. And so you said this is your second startup, correct?
[00:04:16] Leah: Yes, this is my second startup.
[00:04:19] Paula: So before we talk about this second startup, tell me about the first.
[00:04:23] Leah: Okay. So the very first one started in a way that was actually kind of funny because the university I attended was very international. So we had people from all over the world and most of them would live in this hostels inside the schools had a craving for food that they would have made from back in their homes. So when we are having different conversations with people, they say, they mentioned that they would love to have homemade food. And at the time I was, I had a passion for making food myself. So I started with, you know, making a friend, a plate of food, and then they recommended me. And then my friend and I decided to start like homemade [00:05:00] cuisine, kind of like a business. And when we talked to one of our entrepreneurship lecturers, he told us that there was potential to expand it outside of just our university.
[00:05:09] Leah: And we found a way in which we, you know, found a tech solution and build a mobile application in order to connect people with homemade food from their international cuisine, their platters, the people they know, and we found Ethiopian cuisines, Nigerian cuisines, Jamaican cuisines, Asian cuisines, like Chinese and Indian. And so all these, all these cuisines that were need people had craving for, we put them on our platform.
[00:05:36] Leah: And by the time we were building the tech, we would, myself and my business partner were not tech experts. So we went for a hunt and we found a tech person and we collaborated and we were able to build a mobile application and we called it. It’s called Loci Foods, and Loci was L O C I, which is like, a point bringing all locations in one point, so bringing all the international foods into one point. So, yeah, it started from an [00:06:00] idea of cooking for one person and eventually having a mobile application connecting different cuisines in Kenya to other international students within the country. So that was the idea behind the first startup.
[00:06:12] Paula: Wow. You know, when you talked about that, well, first of all, congratulations on that, because that’s how innovation, you were solving a problem. You noticed people were missing their cuisine and you’re like, what can I do about that? I thought you meant local cuisine, but you guys were international.
[00:06:30] Leah: Yeah, I mean, the environment allowed us to think broad because we interacted with people from all over the world and we wanted to see how we can be able to solve that problem effectively. And to my surprise, I found out there was so many international restaurants in the country that I didn’t know myself until that problem came about and it opened to this new possibility of thinking just outside my local food and now interacting with all these other international communities, especially in Nairobi.
[00:06:58] Paula: Fantastic. So what happened to [00:07:00] that? I’m just curious. What happened to that business? Well,
[00:07:02] Leah: So the reason why we did not pursue it completely was because the pandemic happened. And as much as we want to blame the pandemic, it was also because we did not take the opportunity that the pandemic brought in terms of how technology worked was adopted quickly, especially to small businesses, and when people were at home, they could order food. But my business partner and I decided to close shop instead of taking that time to market ourself well and improve on the technology. So by the time the pandemic was kind of dying down, there were other platforms that came about and the competition was very high. So we did not pursue that idea further, but it did give us enough experience and expertise to be confident to not be able to open another startup like the one I’m doing now.
[00:07:52] Paula: That’s what I was about to say to you. No, nothing is ever wasted. The fact that you tried that, it was an idea, [00:08:00] whatever you learned from that, as short as it may have been; you could carry it on into your next business, which is what you said you’re doing now.
[00:08:08] Leah: Yes. So definitely one of the things I’ve learned of doing my entrepreneurship journey is to always fail forward. So regardless of whether the business fails or succeed, the certain lessons that you will always learn that will be able to help you carry on to become a better entrepreneur, to not make the same mistakes and also to move faster and to see opportunities and grab them when they’re still there and still ripe.
[00:08:31] Paula: Yeah, I take my hat off to you. I’m so proud of you. So now with this second venture, how did you come about this one now? Because the first one, okay, you’ve told us what happened. What happened next?
[00:08:43] Leah: Yes. So this one came about because a friend of mine was working on a solution for his mother, who is a small business owner in Tanzania. She has had the same business for over 10 to 15 years and one of the problems she was [00:09:00] facing was getting financial growth in a way that she was able to keep track of those finances over the years and also being able to go to the bank to ask for like loans get she doesn’t have a good credit score because in that sense, she hasn’t had good record keeping for her business. So this business partner saw the way the mom was struggling in terms of bookkeeping for her business.
[00:09:21] Leah: And it wasn’t just her business. It was a lot of small businesses in the area. So he thought of a business idea in terms of mobile applications that the mom could use. Something that was very simple. And so he talked to me about the idea around how we could make it work in terms of, cause there’s so many solutions that exist in terms of bookkeeping, but most of them are international.
[00:09:46] Leah: Especially cause bookkeeping is in line with accounting. So most of them are very technical and. The mom tried them, but she wanted something simple. So we decided to come up with something very simple for the East African market. [00:10:00] And one of the value we bring on board is that we have the local languages as part of the mobiles. So like local languages would be from Swahili, Kinyarwanda, having French as well. And also having very simple accounting knowledge to use the applications. So the idea came about, and that was about last year. And then along the way we applied for different programs in which we got into one program with Carnegie Mellon University in Rwanda. So that’s what’s taken us to Rwanda, so we were able to pursue that idea from Rwanda, Kenya, and Tanzania.
[00:10:38] Paula: Still smiling because I am so impressed by your bravery, your ability to run with an idea. I mean, to start up any business is difficult and then to be young and decided, yep, I’m going to go ahead with it is even more commendable. Wow.
[00:10:55] Leah: Yeah.
[00:10:56] Paula: So now what’s the name of this business? [00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Leah: Yes, the name of the business is Daftari. So Daftari actually means a book. It means a book in Swahili. And our name, we decided to come up with an acronym having a wordplay of the name. So it’s DFTR, but it is said as Daftari, which means a book. So when you think about bookkeeping, it means Daftari in Swahili. And one of our slogans, a common slogan that is said in terms of bookkeeping is meaning if you do not keep record of all your resources or assets, then all your resources will disappear. So for us is to encourage people to keep records of those small transactions, especially in business, keep track of your assets and all your resources so that your wealth doesn’t disappear without your knowledge.
[00:11:49] Paula: Love it. So something apart from financial literacy, you’re also doing digital literacy, correct?
[00:11:56] Leah: Yes.
[00:11:57] Paula: Tell me more about that.
[00:11:59] Leah: So with [00:12:00] digital literacy goes back to the same story of my business partner’s mom who has a very nice smartphone because she works hard and she makes good money. She can afford a good smartphone, but she doesn’t use this smartphone to benefit her or to add value to her business. So she will end up just using the phone for maybe calling, texting, all these basic things. And she doesn’t use the same mobile phone to like I said, add value to her business. So all these resources are available at the palm of her hands, but she thinks it’s too techie. It’s too complicated.
[00:12:34] Leah: So now it’s us, kind of, bridging that gap and letting people see that this tech you have on your hand can actually help you grow your business, whether it’s marketing, whether it’s bookkeeping, whether it’s looking for people to come work with you. There’s so many ways people are not using their hand gadgets to improve their business. So the digital literacy In East Africa, I would say is high. East Africa, there’s a [00:13:00] huge penetration of technology. There’s internet, even back in my village, people are using phones all the time. Mobile money is a big thing. So people are aware of the tech that is available, but now how to use the tech to better their business, to better their life is the gap that is missing. And so that’s the thing that we’re diving into in terms of solving that digital literacy in East Africa.
[00:13:23] Paula: Wow. I’m still blown away. But what I do love is that you see you all, both of you, you and your business partner, you keep seeing problems and finding solutions because that’s how businesses exist. We exist to solve a problem.
[00:13:40] Leah: Yes.
[00:13:41] Paula: So now with the digital literacy, does it expand to all age groups or is it mainly limited? I say this from me, I’m a baby boomer, and I find a lot of women in particular, and men too, they believe that the digital age is really for… they keep saying they’re young people. So [00:14:00] they have a smartphone, as you say, and they don’t utilize it to the maximum. They don’t maximize the usage of it. It’s a smartphone and they use it for basic things, calling, checking the text messages, but there’s so much more they can do. And also the norm is among my age group, so they give it to the young people.
[00:14:18] Paula: They can figure it out instead of even making an effort. So for you to take that upon yourself, for both of you to take that upon yourself to say, we are also apart from the financial literacy, we’re also going to delve into digital literacy is commendable.
[00:14:33] Leah: Yeah.
[00:14:35] Paula: So, from what I’m seeing or hearing from you, both businesses are intertwined with each other. The financial and the digital literacy I find, are intertwined, correct?
[00:14:45] Leah: Yes, they are intertwined. So with the digital literacy, yes, you’re right. There’s a group of people, I would say from like the ages of 45 and above who have put, you know, like technology as a thing for the young [00:15:00] people. While they could be using it to benefit their life. I mean, I’m impressed because you’re out here doing something with tech. You’re doing your own edits. These are things that not every person at a certain age would think is something that they are capable of doing. So there’s like a level of confidence, a level of knowing that they’re also should be good at using tech to solve something in their businesses or in their life or use tech to grow themselves and even things like online learning. Some people think it’s too complicated to do that. So yeah, we want to make sure that we mix both financial literacy and digital literacy because they go hand in hand because so many startups are coming up with this brilliant, innovative solutions, but they do not end up solving the problem for this group of people because they do not use the technology the same way that a certain group of people would.
[00:15:50] Leah: So our focus is making sure that there’s no one who’s going to be left behind when they come to using our solution. We want to be inclusive. And like you say, it’s mostly [00:16:00] women. So our target in terms of when we’re penetrating the market is working with women of a certain age, women who have been in business for many years, women who want to grow, women who have a certain level of interest in terms of digital literacy, and they’re afraid or they do not feel confident enough to use the tech that they have to know their businesses better or use it as a solution. So yeah, definitely include everyone. We’re not leaving any age group behind. Everyone can use our solution. Like, that’s how simple we want it to be in terms of our digital solution.
[00:16:31] Paula: How do you go about this? Are you, I know it’s community based. I heard that. I got the impression that you are going out into the community. You’re using the local languages.
[00:16:41] Leah: Yeah.
[00:16:41] Paula: And what else? Are you using people who… because people do business with people who they can connect with. Either they look like them or they, we talked about the language or they have to have some commonality. So how are you guys doing this? Because I’m, again, I’m going to [00:17:00] refer to my age group tends to say, Oh, they’re just too young. Let them just solve that themselves. Not realizing that we are part and parcel of, if we want to, if we want to go far, someone told me this. If you want to go fast. Do it by yourself. If you want to go far, invite other people to do it. And collaborating with the younger generation. My sister keeps saying, don’t say young, say younger.
[00:17:21] Paula: So I’m going to listen to you. So collaborating with the younger generation will help all of us in the end. So how are you guys going about creating awareness and getting my age group more interested and not afraid? Because I think a lot of what I hear and see with my peers is that they’re afraid of technology. So how are we breaking that down? That’s a long question for just something that I should have said in two words.
[00:17:48] Leah: That’s okay. I’ll try to answer as much as I can. So, maybe just to have an understanding of this older group of women that we work with is that in East Africa, [00:18:00] I don’t know about the rest of the world, there’s a lot of like community based activities that we do. And one of them is financial, what’s the word I’m looking for? Okay. Um, like bringing finances to contributions? What’s the word for… God I’m forgetting the word for it. It’s yeah. Okay. So let me try. Okay.
[00:18:19] Paula: So like people investing?
[00:18:21] Leah: Yeah. So there’s the pooling money. Yeah. Financial pooling of like finances. Okay. Let me go back and answer that. Okay, so in this part of the world in East Africa, there’s a lot of community based activities, and one of them is in finances. People do come together and pool their finances so that they could invest or support one another to pay school fees or support someone who’s sick. And there’s something called Chama, which is like a corporative group that is usually women led group activities where they lend money to each other. They pull money to invest in different businesses, ideas, you know, something to build a [00:19:00] community. And when they do it, there’s usually someone in charge of those finances.
[00:19:04] Leah: And usually it’s someone who’s a bit more learned, someone like a teacher or a pastor’s wife, someone who they deem to handle finances in a more secure and safe way. Someone was a bit of digital literacy. So these many groups come together and they meet like on a weekly and a monthly basis. And usually there’s someone who’s always in charge of the finances. So these women would instead do not keep track of their financial records correctly, or they don’t know how to go about it. So they end up misplacing certain books or misplacing all these different records. So the way we come in or the way we work with this women is sitting down with them because they already have the knowledge of how to run these groups, these communities of bringing finances together.
[00:19:45] Leah: And now using that information, we bring the tech and we educate them on how they can simplify that whole process where they all have access to their financial records and they can keep track of that information for the past 10 years, for the past five [00:20:00] years. And so the biggest thing is working with the treasurer first, the treasurer of the group, and then now working with a whole group of women, and there’s so many different groups like this in Kenya, in Tanzania, in Rwanda. And so when we say we’re working community based workers in that sense, because the minute we educate one woman, we’ve been able to educate a whole community because they’re able to go back and pour that same information to other people around them.
[00:20:26] Paula: I like to be speechless. I’m in awe of you. I’m in awe of what you guys are doing. So why Rwanda? Why Tanzania? Why Kenya? Why not like Uganda? It’s all from surrounding countries.
[00:20:42] Leah: I guess it’s easier to start where you feel a bit more comfortable or where you feel like it’s easier to penetrate the market, especially for me. Kenya is home. Tanzania is right down the border. So language barrier is another thing. I don’t feel like I’m limited to language because if I went to a country where I wasn’t able to [00:21:00] communicate, then that would be a whole other ballgame. And also understanding how things work, how the community works. It makes things easier when you’re marketing yourself and you’re trying to push an idea and then Rwanda, I mean, Rwanda is where we want to say we’ve been able to grow our idea because Rwanda has this support for startups.
[00:21:19] Leah: The government is working closely with upcoming startup to support them. So being able to set base there for us has been a perfect place to grow our business and have a place where we can say we’re growing our business. Sorry, Rwanda is a place where I can say we were able to work with people closely and also language barrier isn’t a thing. So working with that within East Africa is perfect for us because it’s where our problem is. We’re able to relate with the problem and come up with solutions that are directly going to benefit people that we know and benefit the people in our community. So our dream is to be able to start from home and then grow to all these other countries. We’re not [00:22:00] limiting ourselves. We’re just starting from home.
[00:22:02] Paula: Not limiting yourself, just starting from home, yeah. That’s a good place to start. As you said, the language and you’re comfortable there and you’re addressing the need that you know about. As opposed to going into a new area where there’s so many more unknowns and moving parts.
[00:22:21] Leah: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Paula: So I know you have told me repeatedly that you’re not into tech. So how do you go about finding tech partners?
[00:22:29] Leah: Right. So I’ve had a bit of experience finding tech partners. It hasn’t been an easy journey, but the good thing is that there’s a lot of educated tech people out here. So it’s just trying to find the best fit for you. So I’ve had experience working with people who say they’re going to deliver a certain thing and you know, one month goes by three months and you’ve invested your money, your time, and then it’s just a let down. But then eventually through trial and error, I’ve finally been able to find people I can work with.
[00:22:59] Leah: And the good [00:23:00] thing is that now I’m working with a business partner who is a tech genius or a tech person. So it has made things easier. So he comes up with all the tech ideas and I’m able to be the gap between bringing that idea into like something relatable. Because, yes, tech people are have brilliant ideas, and they’re thinking of creative ways to solve solutions, but sometimes you find that the solutions they’re bringing are not relatable, they’re not the perfect fits, so I come in as the person who’s able to understand what the need is, so when we’re building a mobile application, what feature is necessary in terms of how people use the mobile applications or the software. So my thing has just been able to understand the mind of the tech person and also understand the mind of the end user. And I find myself being like the bridge between the two. And it’s something that I absolutely enjoy because I really wanted to be in tech, but I was not a tech person. So now I have a front seat to how the tech works and behind the scenes of how it [00:24:00] works and also bring it to reality.
[00:24:03] Paula: So you’re getting the best of both worlds, actually.
[00:24:05] Leah: Definitely the best of both worlds.
[00:24:08] Paula: Boy, Leah, I love what you’re doing right now. This is your present business. Your second tech startup that you’ve been a part of. What’s the next thing you’re thinking about? You just want to focus on where you are now and then… what’s next? What I see in you is excitement. I see someone who is… you’re solution solver. You look, you see a problem and you think, how do I go about and get it solved or fixed? And this is one, but I know, of course, there are others.
[00:24:40] Leah: Oh, yes, in the mind of an entrepreneur, you’re always seeing so many opportunities and problems to be solved. But for now, I want to put my focus in Daftari and make sure that this is something that we’re building for the right people and making sure that we can take it even bigger than what we could ever imagine. Sometimes having too many [00:25:00] things working at the same time can be a bit exhausting. So yeah, and I’ve done that before. Some have failed, some have worked. But definitely right now, my focus is on Daftari to make sure that we’re building a solution that actually solves something for my community, for East Africa, and of course, something that’s going to bring profit because it is a business at the end of the day. Yeah, so right now that’s my focus.
[00:25:22] Paula: Yeah, I love that as well. That’s really great to hear because a lot of times when you see a problem you want to solve and that’s what all businesses should do, but then you get so tied up with other things. It’s a great idea. But there’s no money. There’s no profit coming. And so it goes to the wayside. So I know that you’re an entrepreneur at heart, but you are also driven by seeing a need and trying to solve it and then bridging the two, bringing the tech to help solve it. We are in 2024. So [00:26:00] technology. Is here to stay.
[00:26:02] Leah: Yeah, I mean, one thing I’ve learned in the past since the pandemic is that tech used to be the future, but now tech feels like it we’re living in tech like tech is happening right now. So I definitely want to be at a place where I’m being able to use tech to be able to solve solutions and to be able to use it to make money as well. Because if you’re not, you’re not making money through tech one way or the other. You’re not really using what resources there are available right now in 2024.
[00:26:28] Paula: Yeah. And looking at relevant for your community, like some of the tech things that we have, tech stuff that we have, like in North America, may not be relevant in East Africa, where you’re from. So seeing the need, bridging that as well, the technology from the Western world and merging it with the emerging countries, the emerging economies is something that we really, I think about it and like the young people. This is your time. This is your time because there’s so much information out there now. It’s [00:27:00] not like before in my days where you had to go to the library and you had a huge encyclopedia. Now it’s all in your hands.
[00:27:06] Leah: Yeah, it’s all in your hands. I don’t know, this is random but have you… I don’t know about, do you guys not use mobile money as much as we do here in East Africa and South Africa.
[00:27:15] Paula: No, we don’t. I said, I was talking about that with my children, you know, that in some ways, I, you guys are more advanced in terms of the mobile money. People just send, what do they call it, P, point of sale, POS. I can talk from Nigeria where people just send money to each other over the phone. Within the last probably five years, we have somewhat caught up, but you guys are still way advanced. Yeah, you’re more advanced with that or more comfortable doing that than we are.
[00:27:50] Leah: So in that sense, I mentioned it because like the way we use mobile money is something that’s very innovative to solving a problem that’s specific to our [00:28:00] market and our community. Because first of all, when the mobile money came about, we were not big users of credit cards or debit cards. So the people who came about with this idea were trying to see what is this innovative solution we can give in terms of people transacting money or spending money without using credit cards or debit cards, all these things, or even all these online payment solutions.
[00:28:22] Leah: So, yeah, that’s just one of the solutions that really inspires me to keep thinking of an innovative solution for my community and thinking that the problem we’re solving here in Kenya or East Africa may not be the same problem that people are going to solve in Norway or in Colombia. So we have to think about our own problems and coming up with innovative solutions for our own problems.
[00:28:43] Paula: Absolutely. Yeah, that’s the truth. So, wow, we’ve been talking for a while. I know that you’re online. If anyone is looking to talk with you, how can they find you?
[00:28:57] Leah: Easiest way to find me is to connect with me [00:29:00] on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Leah Kanyi. I don’t know whether you’ll be able to pin it somewhere, but yeah, that’s the easiest way if you want to reach out, if you have an idea, I would love to see what other people, young and old are working on, what kind of solutions they’d want to see, what kind of, you know, advice it’s given to an upcoming entrepreneur because I’m still learning. I’m still young. There’s so much I have to learn. And my dream is to be an international entrepreneur. Now I’m not limited to just East Africa. So reach out to me at LinkedIn, you’ll be able to get me there and I’ll be able to respond.
[00:29:35] Paula: International entrepreneur, we’re going to add that to the list of all the things that I can describe you as young, vibrant, intelligent, that can see in you a drive to make a difference in the world. And I guess that’s where the international entrepreneur comes from. But before we leave. I’m going to ask you one person who has inspired you to be who you [00:30:00] are today.
[00:30:02] Leah: Oh, wow. I would say one person who’s inspired me, her name is Professor Wangari Mathai. She has, the work she’s done in our country has been amazing. She is one woman who has been able to fight for our forests. And making sure that we can we remain green in East Africa and especially in Kenya. She’s a woman who was able to fight the power and fight the government for the right of the people in terms of taking care of nature.
[00:30:32] Leah: And something that she used to love saying is if you take care of nature and nature will take care of you. And this goes across all different aspects of our lives. If we take care of things that are naturally given to us by God and those things will be able to take care of you. She did pass back, I think, in 2016, but she absolutely inspired me. I’ve heard her book. I love the work that she did. And sometimes I think if I was to be a fighter or freedom fighter, I [00:31:00] would probably follow her steps. But yeah, outside of just like business, she really inspires me to do good for the community and to do good things outside of yourself. Yeah,
[00:31:09] Paula: I’m sorry to hear that she passed, but obviously her spirit still lives on. It has inspired you. It has fueled you to be. I mean, I see in you a fire and she has fueled that drive in you to be the person that you are today with a zeal of not just limiting what you do to East Africa, but being able to change the world by what she has inspired you to do. I love it. Wow. Well, Leah Kanyi, did I get it right?
[00:31:42] Leah: Yes. Leah Kanyi.
[00:31:44] Paula: Hasn’t she been such an amazing guest? She has inspired me now to even want to think, look around me and see what other solutions can I come up with for problems that I see and talk about all the time. And that’s what this whole Chatting with the [00:32:00] Experts is about. It’s a program. It’s a movement almost, in which I want to showcase women, young, middle-aged, well we don’t like to say old, and more seasoned women.
[00:32:14] Leah: Season is a good word.
[00:32:16] Paula: More seasoned women to showcase all what we have learned so that at the end, anyone who looks at this will come away having learned something new, being empowered, or inspired. And for those of you who are watching this show today, if you’d like to be a guest on this show, you can reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com or, I’m also on LinkedIn. Just look for Paula Okonneh on LinkedIn. My Instagram handle is chat_experts_podcast. And these days I am on Facebook and I say that Without emphasis on [00:33:00] Facebook, because I wasn’t on Facebook. I wasn’t very active on Facebook, but now I am. So thank you, Leah. Leah, you have just been amazing. Thank you for coming on to this show.
[00:33:15] Leah: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me as well. Absolute pleasure.
[00:33:19] Paula: It’s been a pleasure for me as well. I’ve smiled the whole way throughout this interview. Thank you.