Education Decisions as an Immigrant Parent

Paula: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of Chatting with the Experts. This episode is different as you see I have a man here and he happens to be my son. And we’re going to be talking about a topic that we discuss frequently at home and that is rearing children as immigrant parents in the United States and I guess it probably applies to anywhere else in the world that one may live that of course they didn’t grow up in. So, today, I will let him take the lead on this because it’s something that, I mean, I said we talk about it a lot, but they’re talking about it today from his perspective. So I’ll let him introduce himself.
Joshua: Okay. Hi. So I’m Joshua Okonneh. I am, of course, the son of my mom here. So my mother is a Grenadian Nigerian immigrant, and my father was a Nigerian immigrant, and I grew up in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I’m 31 years old now. So in this decade of my life, this is a decade where it’s more likely than any of the other decades that I will actually have a [00:01:00] family of my own and gonna have to make some education decisions. And so as a first generation, you know, Nigerian American who is a Christian, there’s a lot of considerations that I have to take into account when you know, making those education decisions for my potential future children. So, yeah, I’m looking forward to chatting about them.
Paula: All right. So, you know, as he’s told you, is that… came to this country and we weren’t familiar with the educational system here. And him being the first was kind of like a guinea pig. I tell him that all apologies, but you know, we kind of were learning as he learned. And so, of course, being that we were immigrants, we strove or we strive to make sure that he had the best, both him and his sister. And so we did our research and we send them to what we consider the best schools. Educational wise, I think we made great decisions, but you know, there were social parts of it that we, because we hadn’t experienced that, we didn’t have any living experience. And [00:02:00] so sometimes we have conversations about whether we made the right decisions or not, but
Joshua: yeah.
Paula: We have to talk about it.
Joshua: So I guess maybe the first thing I would say is like for any parent who’s trying to make these decisions, I think that we have to kind of like, you know, understand and kind of be kind to ourselves and recognize that we’re never going to make the perfect decisions. And there’s a lot of unknowns, you know, like a child is not a dog or kind of like, you know, just an inanimate object. So they have a soul, a mind, emotions of their own, and they don’t necessarily know how they’re going to react when they’re put into certain situations. They’re growing and figuring out the world. And so you could, you know, think you made the best decision and maybe it was for a time and then it kind of like changes as the child changes. And so I think that’s kind of the number one thing to note, which is that, you know, to a certain extent, it’s an art, not a science.
Paula: It’s an art, not a science. Definitely was an art, I would say. So, of course, like Kindergarten to [00:03:00] middle school more or less uneven, would I say? Yeah.
Joshua: Yeah. So I think that those are kind of years where I think one of the things to really consider is, so for kindergarten and kind of like the grade school, especially when the children are younger, there’s kind of two schools of thought. So I think on the one hand, that might be a time where you in some ways you want to invest a little bit, but not too much. So one of the things I’ve heard is that elementary school education is really what sets the foundation for children going forward. And I have seen that, you know, where if children, we tend to think that, okay, it just matters when they’re in high school and they’re preparing to really be kind of into the workforce.
But no, I would actually say in some ways I might consider investing in a school that I really felt was going to nurture my child and really teach them really strong reading, especially reading skills and to a certain extent like arithmetic skills. So I think that, I guess what I’m trying to say is that I do think that in terms of kind of [00:04:00] peer pressure and social influences, that’s a really a time where that is much more minimized. And so that may be a time, especially if you’re a Christian or have another faith, where, you know, you kind of don’t really consider that faith element as being very, very important because it’s just, the children are really so small.
Paula: Mm hmm, mm hmm. Yes. So, we talked about we mentioned that we said, prim… not primary, actually, that’s the British side of me, primary.
Joshua: Elementary.
Paula: Elementary, elementary and middle school were uneventful. Mm hmm.
Joshua: But no more elementary, so I think okay, I’m warming up until and even to a certain extent. So in the States, I think you know middle school starts at age 12. And I think by age 12 like I think by age 10 like children are really starting to, you know, they’re able to dress themselves and they’re able to feed themselves and they have their, you know, they’re speaking and their speaking skills are excellent and so they’re really able to explore especially these days where we live in a more digitized world. And so I really think I’m talking about you know, [00:05:00] up until kind of like maybe second or you know, second or third grade, essentially. I think when a child is starting to be in third grade, I think that’s when we, you kind of want to think about, okay, what are the values and the environment that my child is in?
You know? And how strong of an education are they getting, and I think those are things that you kind of have to balance. And I think one of the questions that I kind of have is, for me as a Christian, I don’t, I think I’m definitely gonna wanna send my children to Christian school. There’s a lot of influences I wouldn’t want to be in my children’s lives, but I think the question I have is, okay, would I home… for me, would I homeschool or would I send the child to a Christian school knowing that, you know, there’s less I can control when it’s out of the home, but there could be some benefit of the child being able to interact with people all day.
Paula: Yeah. Because the social benefit is also a part of the development.
Joshua: Yes.
Paula: You know, and so I believe in spirit, soul, and body.
Joshua: Yes.
Paula: I personally, I can only talk from what I did in [00:06:00] sense of you can get the social part. I felt well, of course, in school and you can get the spiritual growth from church. Bible,
Joshua: Bible study,
Paula: Bible study, yeah. Vacation Bible school, et cetera. Yeah. So that is an interesting observation, but the world has changed so much between when you were a child, yeah, second grade and now, I mean, the digitalization of the world and the exposure to so much more that are at our fingertips. That’s worrisome to me.
Joshua: Yeah, that’s worrisome to me, too. And so, I think for me, that’s one of the reasons that I don’t think, I think that I would be much more inclined to homeschool my child. I think that, you know, probably about 10 to 20 years ago I personally saw homeschooling as a little unnecessary and extreme. I thought you were depriving the child of social interactions. But I think now just with the digitalization of the world, I think I’m much more concerned about really kind of being able to shape my child’s kind of [00:07:00] like experience and their life and, you know, and kind of saying, okay, you know what, I know my child has to social needs. But I can find a way to get my child to, you know, interact with other children and run and play. Right. But I really want to make sure that, you know, I’m controlling kind of like what’s able to go into their minds. So, yeah.
Paula: Yeah. Those are formative years indeed. Okay. So let’s move on to like high school.
Joshua: High school. Yeah.
Paula: High school for us of course, we considered You know, the best education that we thought you should have and your sister should have. This is 2024.
Joshua: What would I say?
Paula: Yeah, what would you say now?
Joshua: So I think for high school, it’s a very different time in the child’s development. You know, really, you think about high schoolers, so 14 to 18, especially those latter years, 16 to 18, they’re really, 18 is adults in the eyes of the law. And so 16, they’re able to operate cars. You know, they’re really coming into being people in their own right, who are much more self-willed and [00:08:00] have ideas and you can kind of talk to them more like an adult. And so I do think that’s a time where really the child’s input becomes very important. You know, hey, what do you want for your life? What do you, what are you thinking about? What are you concerned about? And so I do think that is a time where you defer more to the child a bit. I think that when it comes to high school, I think there are a few things that you as the parent want to consider. So I think the number one is really, you know, to what extent, how concerned kind of are you about, you know, the, I guess I would say like the career trajectory of your child, right?
Because then I think that’s something that’s an honest conversation that everyone needs to have, right? I think that some people will say, Hey, I am, I don’t need my child to have a college degree. I think that there are jobs that my child can get without a college degree and that’s not necessarily something that’s very important to me, right? So, okay. That’s fine. So then you will make your high school decisions accordingly. Other people may say, I really want a college degree, but I don’t necessarily, I’m very [00:09:00] open to the colleges that my child attends, or I want my child to go to like a Christian college, right? You need to make, you know, decisions accordingly.
And other people will say, well, I really want my child to kind of go to certain institutions. For me, my father really wanted me to go to Harvard, other kind of Ivy League institutions that were very high in rank. And so we made high school decisions accordingly. And I think that, you know, that is a complicating factor because, you know, the wishes of the child I do think are important. And you, as the parent, do want to… you are further along and you can kind of see what the child is going to probably grow into and what they may desire, you know, but at the same time, you also want to let them feel as if like they get to make some decisions and kind of take risks because sometimes maybe you allow the child to go to a school for a year and if they don’t like it, you know, sometimes you allow them to change. So I think it’s just a time where you really need to kind of really be all parents and that child needs to really be in close communication.
Paula: Now, of course, we’re talking some of the segment you’ve made, because we are [00:10:00] immigrants, typically we come here to better our lives in quotes, and so for us, bettering our lives is always educational wise. So you mentioned the option of possibly not going to college, that’s very hard for my generation.
Joshua: It is very, very hard, I think, for a lot of people. Sorry, did I cut you off?
Paula: No, you didn’t.
Joshua: I think it’s very, very hard for a lot of my mom’s generation, even I think my generation, right? But I do think that right now in the United States, one of the big things I think about a lot is student debt has just become such a drain on a lot of young people’s lives. And I think for a lot of parents, you know, they want to be able to pay for their children’s education, but sometimes they’re just not able to. And so I do think one of the things that I’m increasingly concerned about is this idea of going to college just for the sake of going to college. And you go to a college where, you know, maybe the child’s not that motivated or they’re studying something that doesn’t have super high paying opportunities when they [00:11:00] graduate.
And yet, you know, they’re taking on large amounts of debt that are really going to limit them in their life. And so I think that, you know, we as immigrants. And, you know, first generation people first generation yeah, Americans or Canadians Bretons, we really have to think, like, is it possible for my child to, you know, not get a college degree and be, you know, successful? And I mean, I’ve been continuing to see more and more people who have opted for that route and they’ve had very successful, fulfilled lives. And it makes me ask myself, well, you know, maybe that’s something I should consider for my children.
Paula: Food for thought,
Joshua: food for thought.
Paula: But you know the world has changed, I mean there are a lot more career opportunities now that really may not be I mean a college degree may not be necessary. Ultimately it depends on the child, you know, and more and more I see courses that are being geared towards the child’s interests. [00:12:00] As opposed to in my generation it was like you’ve got to make a living with this because remember we came here to better our lives and many of us had other responsibilities apart from y’all our children we also had extended families that we had to look into how to support and so we chose careers sometimes that we didn’t particularly like but because it was the most worthwhile thing it was something that we knew that you know would be able to help us support ourselves and others.
Joshua: And I actually am 100% in agreement with that. And I think that’s quite compatible with my suggestion to, you know, consider not doing college. Because I think really having a focus on and really instilling in your child that you need to be able to put food on the table consistently and have stable employment, you know, and so if that means becoming an electrician or becoming a plumber, right? Like maybe that is going to be more, give you more stable employment. Maybe that is going to lead you to being able to, you know, pay your bills more consistently or, and also [00:13:00] potentially, maybe that’s something you do for the first four years of your life, for the first four years.
You know, you save money, you get into a position where you feel like, you know, education is something I want to pursue. And then you pursue an advanced degree, right? I think, you know, even going into the military there’s so many things that… there’s so many options, I think, that need to be considered. I simply think that, you know, really having a very sober view of If I do this path, there’s going to be a lot of days that are challenging. There’s going to be a lot of days that are mundane. And I’m going to need to be able to put food on the table at the end of the day. And, you know, for a lot of people, that is college. I mean, that’s my personal belief. But it’s, it is something that everyone has to consider.
Paula: You’re right. Right. So there’s something that we talked about boarding school.
Joshua: Mm hmm.
Paula: Immigrant parents have a culture. Well, I can talk from the Nigerian perspective. When boarding school was culture, I didn’t go to boarding school. My sister [00:14:00] did, but I didn’t go to boarding school in Nigeria. And my husband went to boarding school in Nigeria for a period of time, but he thought it was very wise for you to go to boarding school.
Joshua: Mm hmm.
Paula: What would you say about that?
Joshua: What would I say? Yeah. So, I think, well, for me, I think boarding school was, for me, in some ways, very beneficial, I think, academically. And I think to a certain extent, professionally. So, for me, I think boarding school really taught me how to really study independently, which is a hallmark of college. You know, you get to college and the professor teaches a lot, but really to excel, you need to be self-driven. You need to be able to organize your time and to know that no one’s looking over your shoulder. And to, you know, prioritize going to certain lectures or recitation or finding the professor. You know, you need to be a self-starter when you get to college.
And you need to have those strong critical thinking, math and reading skills in order to be successful and in those environments. And so I do think that for [00:15:00] some children, you know, you do need to… that is something that’s very important. I think for me as a child who was a little sheltered, I think it was a good decision by my father to kind of get me exposed more into the world and to, and now I think I have skills that I really may not have had, I have really strong Spanish and Portuguese skills that came from, you know, boarding school. I have, you know, really strong I’ve had been able to develop really, a really strong career. But I would also say that I see a lot of friends who went to public school or went to days day private schools who have even stronger skills in those areas. And so I really think that it’s very dependent on the child. And I simply think that Everyone needs to, again, have that conversation with themselves and be willing to take risks, you know, like maybe I had, I went to boarding school and I almost came back from boarding school. And so if I had come back, you know, it could have been a thing where I tried it and it wasn’t for me. And, you know, that’s it. [00:16:00]
Paula: Yeah. Cause I know that’s a question sometimes you ask, would my life have been different if I had not continued at boarding school or if I had just remained as a day student at the school that you attended, yeah.
Joshua: Yeah,
Paula: I can’t say.
Joshua: It can’t say. And so I think that ultimately, you know, for me, as again, as a Christian, I think that one of the benefits to having your child close at home is that they can really develop that relationship with you and, you know, grow spiritually. They can be connected to your church, and you know, that’s a really big benefit for them before they kind of go off to college. If they’re moving far away, you know, They really have that time to really establish themselves as people with you living in your house before they make that jump and go, you know, for me, you know, I was studying in Pennsylvania and Philadelphia and my family was living in Charlotte. So if I had gone from Charlotte to Philadelphia, I think that would have been a big jump. But I do think for me going from [00:17:00] Charlotte to Boston to New Hampshire for three years and then going to Philadelphia, well, wow, that was even easier for me.
Paula: It certainly was. I remember some of your friends that were homesick and you were like, homesick? There’s nothing to be homesick about. There’s so much. It was like, you were like, the food is great. I’m in the city. School is what I’m doing everything that I want it. So for you…
Joshua: it was so much better I think for me, you know, and I think that this is just a biblical or life principle Which is that when you’ve had adversity when, you know, more softer comfortable times come you really appreciate those comfortable times. And so for me being able to be at school where there weren’t so many rules and when the food was so much better. I was wow. I was so happy and and I don’t think that was the case for other people, but, you know, there were also a lot of other people who found it pretty easy to adjust, you know? So, I think it really, really does depend on your child and, you know, [00:18:00] sometimes, you know, sometimes they say boys are different from girls. I think that can be true, but I think, you know, ultimately, it’s really the different individuals.
Paula: Different individuals. So to summarize it, what would you say now to immigrant parents My generation is, I mean, you guys are older, but someone who is immigrating from some other part of the world, coming to, in this case, probably the United States or anywhere else that is foreign to them. What would you say? What would be your number one? to them today, 2024.
Joshua: The one advice would really be to get out there and explore, you know, we have an expression in the States, Pound the Pavement which is get out there, talk to people, knock on doors. And so, you know especially as an immigrant who’s coming into the States, you know, you want to collect a wide array of information so that you are your partner, you and your spouse, you and your trusted family members can really make that decision of what is best for my child. And I think being open to different perspectives, one of the things I think that we have to remember is that as immigrants, you know, we’re [00:19:00] still you know, maybe not we, but you know, we, even as an immigrant, you know, you have all the internet available to you and you’re more than just, you know, a product of kind of like where you grew up.
And so you’re able to take on new forms of thought. You’re able to kind of consider new perspectives. Even if, you know, you’re kind of under the stress of how do I adapt into this new place? You know, you don’t have to kind of take all of the mindsets from where you were coming from. And you also don’t have to adapt all of the mindsets from where you’re coming to. You can blend and you can take from other places. And so I think that really being okay with stepping outside of the box and say, you know, I know that my tradition says this. I know that the tradition here says this. However, I believe that X or Y different thing is going to be best for my child.
Paula: I love that. And as you mentioned, I mean, the internet is so much more accessible now than it was 30 something years ago. So, I mean, there’s so much information that groups you can become part of and now with AI [00:20:00] that really is now gonna join with… Open
Joshua: AI.
Paula: AI. Yeah. And so I mean
Joshua: the sky is the limit,
Paula: yes. So bad
Joshua: the sky is the limit.
Paula: You can find out from others who are in similar situations to you. So as Joshua said, the sky is the limit.
Joshua: The sky is the limit.
Paula: So thank you so much everyone for tuning in today. It’s always great to have different perspectives and sometimes this perspective is from a different gender and younger generation as has been the case today. Thank you, Joshua, for being a guest on your mom’s show Chatting With The Experts.
Joshua: Thank you for having me.
Paula: Before I leave, I always ask my… before you leave, I always ask my guests where they can be found online. Are you on LinkedIn?
Joshua: I am on LinkedIn. Yes. So Joshua Okonneh.
Paula: On LinkedIn. Thank you. And for me, if you’d like to be a guest on the show, please reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com, you can also find me on [00:21:00] Instagram. My handle there is at chat_experts_podcast. I’m on LinkedIn. How could I forget that? Just look for Paula Okonneh on LinkedIn. And I’m gradually and I need to stop saying gradually I am on Facebook. Just look for Paula Okonneh on Facebook. Thank you again and see you next week. On another episode of Chatting with the Experts. Bye!
Joshua: Bye!