A Unique Perspective on Addressing Population Health

[00:00:00] Paula: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of chatting with the experts, the TV show where I promote women from Africa and the Caribbean who have either remained in Africa or the Caribbean, or they now live abroad. At the end of this show, my mission is that you would have learned something because these women, these amazing women, what they do is they share with you their expertise. So that you will be encouraged, inspired, and educated about something at the end of the show. Today, I’m going to be talking to a special woman. And we’re going to be talking about Addressing Population Health With a Unique Perspective. My guest [00:01:00] is an innovative and out of the box thinker that describes herself in two ways. She describes herself as a doctor of your health administration needs, and also as a healer of organizations and employees, one employee at a time. So my guest, this amazing woman, is Dr. Cheryl Okoli. And with that, I want to welcome her to Chatting With The Experts.
[00:01:40] Dr Cheryl: Thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me, and I’m honored and delighted to be here.
[00:01:46] Paula: Thank you. I say this to all my guests. Thank you for saying yes. I don’t take it for granted. Thank you. So, I know that I told our listeners, that we gonna be talking about addressing population [00:02:00] health with a unique perspective, but I don’t think I did… I gave you enough credit by talking about who you are and what you do, because you have such an impressive bio I thought it would be best if you spoke about it yourself or introduced yourself. How about that?
[00:02:18] Dr Cheryl: Okay, sounds good. Well, thank you very much for the opportunity once again, and I’m sure our listeners just so we’re all clear when our dear Miss Paula Okonneh invited me, I was like, I’m not really sure if I meet the criteria for your guests, but you know what, in hindsight, I was like, no, I’ll just share with her audience why I’m here. When I said I didn’t think I would meet the criteria in the sense that I consider myself a global citizen. Obviously, those of you listening to me can detect an accent of some sort, and so I might jump to some [00:03:00] conclusions, but I just want to clear the air in the sense that I am Canadian, born and raised in Manitoba, but I grew up on three continents.
[00:03:10] Dr Cheryl: So imagine my childhood, or rather my toddlerhood and infanthood was spent in Winnipeg, Manitoba, childhood in Nigeria, and then my teen years in the Middle East in a country called Qatar. So I am what psychologists, sociologists would call a third culture kid, and I highly recommend you research that at your own time. So I just want to make that a little bit of a disclaimer. So most of my adulthood, and all of it actually, and my professional experience has been in Canada. Okay. So that’s the lens through which I’ll answer the question posed to me. So, who am I? So, yes, I am.
[00:03:52] Paula: Who are you?
[00:03:53] Dr Cheryl: Yeah So I am Dr. Cheryl Okoli, DHA. I like to add a DHA to remove any [00:04:00] confusion whatsoever. In the sense that I am not a medical doctor, but I do have a doctorate and a DHA stands for a Doctor of Health Administration needs. So yes, I do like to describe myself as a doctor that looks after you, an executive or business owner in your health administration needs. And how I break that down is looking at five different pillars of leadership. Workforce development, forging partnerships, the organization culture and climate, and last but not least, financial practices. Okay, so I like to help business owners, C level suites, executives, have a high level strategic view of the organizations. The second way I like to introduce myself as well, and this is more recent, just to provide some clarity, a healer of organizations, one employee at a time.
[00:04:53] Dr Cheryl: I’m all about wholeness, okay? So when I talk about [00:05:00] wholeness, an organization can be whole, you’d be like, that’s a little take or perspective. Yes, it’s a different paradigm shift altogether. But when I talk about wholeness, I’m talking about how smoothly things run in those five domains I mentioned. How whole is the leadership? How whole is your organization coaching climate? How whole is your workforce? Or do you need to develop them? How is the partnership? And how do you affect national practices? These all lead to operational productivity. Now when I talk about healing employees or organizations one at a time, I’m referring to an innovative, and this comes back to the question now, an innovative healthcare model.
[00:05:45] Dr Cheryl: Let’s pause there for a second. When we talk about population health, people mostly think about people with morbidities. So it could be maybe a group of people with hypertension or cancer or stroke or [00:06:00] diabetes. Basically a population is a group of people that have something in common. It could either be, in a healthcare context, it has to do with a health related thing. If it’s geographically, it depends on where they live, right? So you could say the population of Toronto, the population of Calgary, population of Maryland, so you could look at cities, you could look at states and so forth, right? But talking about the population health lens here, the unique population I want to target are employees.
[00:06:32] Dr Cheryl: So my main business is called Shalom Eagle’s Wings and roughly is divided into three main domains, consultation, advocacy, and empowerment. Under the consultation, I talked a little bit about that in the sense that I cater to executives or business owners or leaders who need assistance in any one of those five domains I mentioned. The advocacy component is targeting or looking at where there are [00:07:00] population gaps. Especially in our recent world, in the past two or three years, healthcare providers have been burned out. Prior to the pandemic, they were burning out, but it didn’t really come to the forefront. But the pandemic brought it to the forefront.
[00:07:20] Dr Cheryl: But the interesting thing is, when I focused on this population of healthcare providers, the idea was conceived in 2016 whereby I was like asking the question “who takes care of them holistically?” And holistic to me means taking care of them physically, mentally, socially, culturally, and spiritually. So remember, 2016, the idea was conceived. Those only more so I’ll say around 2019 to 2022. I felt this sense of urgency. It’s time to move. It’s time to act. [00:08:00] Hence, the new innovative model, I would like to think it’s out of the box thinking, and other people concur, is an organization, a business venture that I’m now working on called Renata Wellness and Recreation Retreat.
[00:08:17] Dr Cheryl: So it caters to the population of healthcare providers in the industry. And when I use the word healthcare providers, think outside the box. I’m not using the HPA, as in the Health Professionals Act’s definition of who a healthcare provider. But just think of it as this way. If you provide care to a human being in any one of these domains, physically, mentally, socially, culturally, spiritually, you are legible for the services. And what are these services? Renata Wellness and Recreation Retreat is a place of recalibration, a place of rejuvenation, a place where healthcare providers, regardless of setting, so you could be at C level suite, you could be in research, academia, in the front [00:09:00] lines, a place where you are cared for holistically through your physical needs.
[00:09:06] Dr Cheryl: Yes, it’s food and accommodation, mentally and socially. So some of these providers might be experiencing burnout or might have been recipients of bullying and harassment. Mark my words, I used the word recipient. I didn’t use the word victim. Some might say semantics, but for me, this is sort of different. Because recipient, I feel is a little bit more empowering than using the word victim. And I’m all about creating hope in people. Okay? So, and also another activity that’s provided, so in terms of workshops, there are workshops like light learning, because it’s a place of recreation, we want them to rest, right?
[00:09:46] Dr Cheryl: But nevertheless, I want them to leave being empowered to be positive change agents in whatever setting their work is. So in that light, so light learning on conflict resolution, and also [00:10:00] organization development courses. And last but not least we have. Well, two other things we have group counseling, because I mentioned they might be recipients of bullying harassment, or they might be burning out. And then we also have something called nighttime dream counseling. You’re like, what’s that?
[00:10:18] Paula: What’s that?
[00:10:19] Dr Cheryl: I believe that we should. Yes. I believe we should pay attention to our nighttime dreams. Why? Because sometimes you can receive creative ideas, warnings. You’re like, how’s that? So what if I were to tell you that actually the name Renata for the recruits, I got it in a dream. It’s not a wonderful lie. It came to me in a dream. And I’d never heard that name before. And when I Googled it, guess what it means Rebirth or Reborn. Isn’t such an environment of the retreat, a place for when I say recalibration, rejuvenation. So please would be reborn in the way you think [00:11:00] to take you back to your workplace or your family to be a better positive change agent. So now that I’m positive for now and entertain any questions you might have because I can go on and on.
[00:11:15] Paula: Wow. One thing we can see for sure is that you are passionate. You love what you’re doing. And as you say, it has come from within you. These are not things that someone told you about. And the question I do have is, Shalom came before the Renata.
[00:11:37] Dr Cheryl: Yes, yes. Excellent question. Okay. So I betcha. So Renata, so I’m sorry, Shalom Eagle’s Wings. Yes. So there’s the logo of Shalom Eagle’s Wings. So very good question. So, Shalom Eagle’s Wings was founded in 2014. And why? Twofold. Number one from a clinical lens, I’m very passionate [00:12:00] in raising public awareness for women living with uterine fibroids. Raising public awareness and one on one consultation. But on the other hand too, I am also passionate. Based on a promise I made to myself and God to empower people to deal with conflict effectively. You ask why? I noticed in my career, and by the way, that I have 20 years of healthcare experience in different settings prior to 2014.
[00:12:27] Dr Cheryl: So I would have been working officially in the workforce as of 2003, 2004. So that would be what about 10 years prior to Shalom being founded. I’ve noticed that the way conflict was dealt with in the workplace was… I just said there could be much improvement. People didn’t understand the difference between constructive and destructive conflict because conflict is not necessarily bad. It’s how you address a conflict situation. So cut a long story [00:13:00] short, I was like, okay, here we go. I’m passionate about uterine fibroids. I’m questioning about empowering people to deal with conflict effectively. What would the business name be? Shalom, Eagle’s Wings came to me, Shalom in itself. Most people know it to mean peace, which is good, which is right, but it also means wholeness and blessings.
[00:13:25] Dr Cheryl: So do you see with me think how I talk about how I’m all about wholeness of organizations, wholeness of employees? With the name Shalom, I’m dealing with conflict that covered that part. And then the eagles, I actually see myself as a visionary and I’m very strategic in my planning. And how I work and practice and the eagle has very keen eyes, right? It soars above storms. It soars above adversity. I liken that. And one thing people do not know, actually, one of my middle names [00:14:00] means eagle. Actually means God is my eagle. And then the wings component has to do with empowerment. So if you remember, I mentioned, I don’t know if I mentioned it or not, but Shalom Eagle’s Wings is about consultation, advocacy, and empowerment.
[00:14:14] Dr Cheryl: So out of the empowerment, the Wings, nurturing people that come to me for consultation, I’m also a conflict resolution coach. I’m certified with an organization, the Canadian International Institute for Applied Negotiations for their hybrid program. And again, all through my doctorate and academics, I always infused conflict resolution in whatever I was doing, right? Again, to fulfill the promise I’d given to myself and to God. So that’s what Shalom Eagles Wings is. So yes, it came before Renata. And under the domain of advocacy would be, I’m always looking for how I can advocate for, again, bridging gaps in care, be it for the uterine fibroids. Or employees health [00:15:00] and wellness and what’s come out of that to some extent is Renata Wellness and Recreational Retreat to the point that even before it was launched, I actually started a petition, believe it or not, and lots of people signed it. So what I would love is for the government to recognize the value. Even though the Health Minister of Alberta at the time recognized the value of this retreat idea, he’s no longer in office anyways. But I would love for the government to fund it or for organizations to see the value of this, to provide the funding so the employees can attend such a retreat.
[00:15:38] Dr Cheryl: Yeah.
[00:15:40] Paula: Wow. What a very vivid explanation on how we got the Shalom Eagles Wings, did I get that? And then how you merged it, because initially I was like, okay, uterine fibroids, connection.
[00:15:57] Dr Cheryl: I know.
[00:15:58] Paula: And you joined it [00:16:00] together. You showed me how they’re really interconnected. Yeah. Love that. You know, but as you spoke, it reminded me of, I had a guest and I mean, most of us have traveled and on airlines, we hear a lot about, you know, for safety purposes, they say, put on your mask first before you put on the mask of those loved ones. And that’s exactly what I see you doing with, especially the Renata Wellness Recreation Retreat. You are helping health professionals keep healthy and burnout is real. It’s real.
[00:16:39] Paula: Yep.
[00:16:40] Dr Cheryl: Bad things that people don’t necessarily recognize when they’re burning out. There’s a group of authors that I liked their take on what burnout is. There are three criteria. Let’s see if I remember them off the top of my head. But basically what they say is if you notice you’re maybe more cynical than usual, feeling more exhausted than usual, [00:17:00] or you feel like your workplace performance has decreased, chances are you might be burning out. You know, and one thing about burnout, so there’s occupational burnout. And then there’s burnout due to life. What I mean by that, burnout that’s related to your environmental factors, right? It could be maybe increased workload or decreased resources or you’re not being heard. It could be microaggressions like discrimination that all lead to burnout from a work occupational stance.
[00:17:32] Dr Cheryl: Or it could be burnout that’s multifaceted, that’s related to maybe what’s going on at home, right? So you could be someone, an employee, caring for your young ones, caring for your parents, that’s called a sandwich generation, because you’re sandwich, caring for parents, caring for young, right? So that can contribute to burnout, could be maybe, there could be marital issues going on, it could be financial issues. So all of that, because we’re holistic beings, [00:18:00] right? Physical, mental, social, cultural, spiritual. It’s nearly impossible that what’s happening at home would somehow overflow to your work life. It’s very rare that you separate it, right? But that’s why it’s best for us to be at our best at home to give our work the best.
[00:18:18] Dr Cheryl: So one thing I love about Renata too, and one of the things is when I talk about recalibration, I actually have a mnemonic for that. It’s all about stopping. It’s not if you do identify, you may be burning out or you think you’re at risk for it. You stop and recalibrate, meaning basically start reassessing each letter actually means something. I’m not going to go into that here, but the essence of it is this. You stop and ask yourself what I’m doing right now, is it what I should be doing? What needs to go? What needs to stay? And then also celebrating the good things that you do, do the milestone you’ve reached, right? Eliminating anything that’s negative. You know, seeking counsel if you need to seek [00:19:00] counsel of other people because we don’t know it all. And not to be ashamed if you need that extra assistance, you know what I mean, because with the mental health, there is that stigma.
[00:19:11] Paula: Yes.
[00:19:12] Dr Cheryl: No matter how we want to deny it, regardless of what part of the world, there’s always a stigma associated with mental health issues. But post pandemic, people are a little bit more understanding is what has been my observation. But there are still some cultures where it’s a stigma regardless. But my point is. We need to be whole, holistically. People talk about a whole work life balance. I now like to say work life harmony.
[00:19:42] Paula: Oh, I like that one.
[00:19:44] Dr Cheryl: That’s a little bit borrowed from someone, so I can’t take credit. But I like to say harmony versus the balance. But yes, it’s still that seesaw, though. I like to think of seesaw. When I talk about work life balance, I think of a seesaw. Those who’ve played that game of seesaw. [00:20:00] In order for you to be fun, you need to, one person has to go up and one has to go down. It’s rarely ever…
[00:20:08] Paula: Yep.
[00:20:08] Dr Cheryl: Horizontal. So in the same way with harmony. Yes. We’re the same way. It has to be like harmony, you know, like the beautiful orchestra with the different voices. I’m like more of an alto. I’m not saying I’m a great singer at all, but I love harmony. Right. So how do you harmonize what’s going on in your life with your work and your social life too. Right. Yeah.
[00:20:31] Paula: Important. So I’m listening to this at all. I’m thinking, okay, so these are great things you’re doing. How do you operationally, how do they work? You’ve got the Shalom Eagles. I’m not going to get it right. I know. Remind me. Shalom Eagles.
[00:20:53] Dr Cheryl: Wings?
[00:20:53] Paula: Wings. Above. All right. And then we’ve got the [00:21:00] Renata Wellness Recreation Retreat.
[00:21:03] Dr Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:04] Paula: Operationally, how do they work? And I’m even more interested. Let’s answer that one first before I ask the next one.
[00:21:11] Dr Cheryl: Okay. How does it work operationally? You mean, do you mean, as in, how do I balance both?
[00:21:17] Paula: How do you balance? How do you harmonize? We’re going to use the word.
[00:21:20] Dr Cheryl: There we go. She’s paying attention. How do I harmonize both? Excellent point. Okay. So remember how I mentioned, I’m like an eagle. I look at things strategically.
[00:21:29] Paula: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:29] Dr Cheryl: So with the Renata, if you think about it, based on what I’d mentioned, It’s sort of an offshoot of Shalom Eagle’s Wings in terms of the consultational service. The only difference is the application is different. Application is different in the sense that I’m thinking more recreation and fun for the attendees. So with recreational I’m sorry, with Renata Wellness and Recreational Retreat, right now is [00:22:00] seasonal. It’s not all year round. It’s definitely not full time. But I would love for it to be full time in due time. So right now, Like I mentioned, it was maybe I didn’t. It was launched last year, September of last year, and that’s been the only one so far. So this year, I am strategizing how I can harmonize both of them. So for Renata, my hope and desire is to have it at least once a month for about five months of the year.
[00:22:30] Dr Cheryl: And with Shalom Eagles Wings, again, being that strategic and visionary again, eliminating partners that may not be conducive for my vision and trying to have the right partners for my vision, right? I have no qualms in eliminating. Sometimes the power No, it’s a very powerful weapon. It’s not to be cruel, but it’s making room for what you should be saying yes to. So yes. So they’re both in their infancy stages. So lots of what I’ve been doing right now is lots of [00:23:00] networking in terms of at a micro level and a macro level strategic partnerships is what I’ve been focusing on in the past few months. And yeah.
[00:23:12] Paula: Okay. Now I have better clarity. I was wondering about you and work life harmony for you. This is not easy. Not easy. Yeah. So even with the, of course, the Renata Wellness Recreation Center… Retreat is the newer of the two businesses. So my question, which I said I was going to come to was staffing wise how do you handle that? Because retreats, when we think of retreats, we think of, you know, sometimes solitude, but in a good way, you know, as you say, fun, you know, not work, taking away work and replacing it with something that you enjoy.
[00:23:54] Dr Cheryl: Yes. Excellent question. Thank you. So what I’m doing, so I’ll answer that in [00:24:00] two folds. So right now, so plan A is to have my own physical location, a place, physical location dedicated to running this retreat. Plan B is to rent out spaces, which is what I actually did for the launch. So with that, when I rent out spaces of venue, so they provide all the meals. They provide the accommodation if needed. They provide all the tools and accessories. All I have to do would be to have my speakers or facilitators. So I want to talk about staffing. So for example, what I love to do, I always like to talk about the conflict resolution class. And then the dream night time, dream time counselling.
[00:24:38] Dr Cheryl: For the launch, I invited a speaker to talk about financial wellness because that’s part of organization development because financial wellness can be part of the organization. It could be part of the employee. And then I had a counselor. The plan is to have a counselor to come facilitate the burnout sessions. Okay. Qualified [00:25:00] Counsellor. So these are my strategic partners, if you will, for running the retreats. So for me, again, and I won’t lie, I did most of like the marketing and social. That is not my strong suit. I’m looking forward and I have been actively trying to see someone take over that role so I can focus on other things. So if you know anyone, who’s excellent and excellent VA that can help with lead generations and social media and all of that. Why not?
[00:25:36] Paula: Okay, I can think of someone. So yeah, we talked about that. Yes. This is what I’m hearing about, you know, knowing your purpose and working within your strengths. That’s exactly what you’re doing and say the things you’re, you know, that are not your strength. I don’t want to say weakness. I don’t see anything weak connected with you and what you’re doing. You’re [00:26:00] outsourced. That’s some of the secrets behind success of, yeah, outsourcing.
[00:26:07] Dr Cheryl: Yeah.
[00:26:07] Paula: Wow. I love what you’re doing. I mean, the passion shows all over your face.
[00:26:13] Dr Cheryl: I do love it. I do.
[00:26:16] Paula: Yeah, yeah. So before we go, I just, you know, as I heard you think, as I heard you talking, I mean, of course, I’m thinking, you know, do you have one success story you can, and I know you have many. So can you just give us one success, somebody who you have seen their life change without, you know, I mean, of course, within confidentiality.
[00:26:38] Dr Cheryl: Yeah.
[00:26:39] Paula: Parameters.
[00:26:39] Dr Cheryl: Sure. So, with Renata Wellness Recreation Retreat, I had excellent feedback to the point that the attendees said you should open it up beyond the healthcare providers.
[00:26:52] Paula: Mmm.
[00:26:52] Dr Cheryl: That’s one feedback I got. They love the dance class. Like honestly, [00:27:00] you could see the transformation on their faces. They were grinning from ear to ear because dancing, I’m a little bit partial and biased. I love dancing. That’s why I had to integrate it as part of the recreation. It releases endorphins. It’s not just a social activity and it’s good for you physically, but also mentally. There was a huge transformation. Among the attendees, people were just smiling and green from ear to ear. They loved it. Nighttime, dreamtime counseling for some people, they’ll be like, Oh, that’s a little bit different. But for me, that’s how I incorporated the spiritual domains.
[00:27:38] Dr Cheryl: So people love it. And I have both male and female. So it was very interesting. I did a survey afterwards. I’ve seen the feedback, right? So we’re sure that they really did love it. And it’s something that I’m on the right track. Yeah. Yeah. And I would do Shalom Eagle’s Wings in terms of my consultancy part of things. So I remember there was this business owner. She came to [00:28:00] me, she’s creating a care facility and I can’t say much, thank you, because of confidentiality. I even don’t have her organization listed publicly. I just write confidential, but she came to me with deliverables. But then she said, if this were your own baby, what would you do for it, the organization?
[00:28:18] Dr Cheryl: So that gave me freedom to meet her deliverables, but also say, you know what, I noticed this was missing. What have you considered, so so and so? For example, the appropriate healthcare model that will be conducive for what she’s creating, right? So yeah, so those are some success stories I can share so far.
[00:28:39] Paula: Wow. Dr. Cheryl Okoli. I mean you blow me away with what you’re doing. I mean, I know you, but I didn’t know all of that part of you. So, where can you be found online if someone listening to this or viewing this wants to know more about you because [00:29:00] life… what’s it? Work life harmony is something we all need.
[00:29:04] Dr Cheryl: Yes, indeed. Yes. So I am on LinkedIn so you can find me, Dr. Cheryl Okoli, DHA, I’m there for my businesses. You’re going to notice a trend. So the email for Shalom Eagles Wings is cheryl@shalomeagleswings.care. For Renata Wellness and Recreation Retreat is info@renata.care. Do you notice something similar, care? Because I do care for people and that’s a unique domain as well. So that’s how you can reach or you can contact me by your phone. I’m very responsive. I’ll check both inboxes and junk mail. And for your information too, just in case when you reach out to me, and when I reach back to you, please always check your junk mail. Because I have such a unique domain of care, that most emails, it goes to their junk mail. So just an FYI, but I will respond.
[00:29:57]
[00:29:57] Paula: I love it. And [00:30:00] so I promised you, my viewers and listeners, that every guest I bring on is unique and special and that you would learn something new. I’ve learned something new as I am sure you have. And so if you would like to be a guest on this show, please reach out to me on the contact page of my website.
[00:30:23] Paula: My website is chattingwiththeexperts. com. Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn. Just Google, just not Google, but just search for me on LinkedIn. Paula Okonneh on LinkedIn. Oh, I am also on Instagram. My handle there is at chat_experts. Can’t speak today. experts_podcast. And this year, 2024, I’ve decided that Facebook and I should become friends or better friends. Have been on Facebook but not very active. You can reach out to me on Facebook as well. [00:31:00] I really enjoyed having you on Dr. Cheryl Okoli.
[00:31:05] Dr Cheryl: Thank you.
[00:31:06] Paula: Thank you for saying yes.
[00:31:10] Dr Cheryl: Thank you for having me. It’s an honor.
[00:31:13] Paula: Thank you.