How to Outsmart Financial Systems

Paula: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts TV show, where I, Paula Okonneh, the host, speak with women from Africa and the Caribbean and in the Diaspora. These women are successful business owners and professionals, and the mission of this show is to inspire people. Empower and educate women globally. I sometimes have men on the show, but 99. 9 percent of the time, my guests are women. So the guest today is Norma Cassius and the title of this episode is Think Like a Bank. Think Like a Bank focuses on navigating the financial landscape with strategies and with intelligence. And Norma’s objective is to guide you in applying the same principles that banks use [00:01:00] to benefit you, listener, viewer, and even for me, because I learn something new every day.
So the aim of Think like a Bank is to empower you to outsmart this system. I’ll tell you a little bit about Norma. She is a money management and mental health consultant with over 20 years of experience in the financial sector based in, and she’s based in Harley street, London. She’s a qualified psychotherapist with 17 years of experience across the various therapeutic settings. So she brings a unique blend of expertise to her work. She’s also the founder and CEO of Think Like a Bank, which gives an innovative approach to money management and she’s also an author. There’s so much I can say about her, but why don’t I do this? Let me just welcome her to Chatting With the experts show. So welcome [00:02:00] to the show, Norma.
Norma: Welcome. Hi, lovely to be on the show. I’m honored in fact, to be on your show, Paula. So thank you.
Paula: Thank you. I always try to read a bit of my guests bio, but you know, I can’t say everything because my guests are always so phenomenal. There’s so much to say about them. So what I do is ask them to say a bit more because I don’t know if I said everything.
Norma: That’s fine. So thank you for the introduction. So yeah, you did cover quite a bit about who I am and what I do. And as you quite rightly said, I’m a money management and mental health consultant. And for a lot of people they, sort of like, not sure about the connection of money management and mental health and how does that work together. So I’ll just give you a backdrop of my [00:03:00] story and how I combined my two areas of expertise together. So at one point in my life, I was a single mother with three children, age six years and under. I had a mortgage to pay, a car to run, all on a part time salary. And, you know, it was at that point, I had to either sink or swim.
And as, you know, cost of living when people talk about this cost of living crisis, I was in a cost of living crisis over a decade, because from the day I became a single mother, I never received one penny from the father of my three children. So I had to make every penny count as you can imagine, having a mortgage to pay, three children to be responsible for and everything that goes with that. And so, you know, had I not had, at that time I was working in the bank, so thankfully I had some knowledge of like, you know, [00:04:00] financial knowledge. And also I gained a lot of my financial knowledge from my parents. You know, as children, we’re like sponges. Children are like sponges where they absorb everything consciously or unconsciously.
And I saw how my parents managed and maximized their money. Now, my dad back in the fifties, he had two properties and a dry cleaners in Jamaica. And then he came to England. He was part of the windrush generation. Do you know what the windrush generation is?
Yes. So my parents were part of that. And he came to England and bought the largest house on the road. I think that’s where I get my high chest from because, you know, he made his money work for him. He had the best of everything. He had the best his money could buy, but it was very frugal. Between my mom and my dad, there were six of us. And I’m sure my dad must’ve gave my money the same housekeeper for like a decade. And she had to make it work right. And make it work, she [00:05:00] did. It felt like we had everything and lacked nothing.
Looking back now just reflecting on my mom’s journey, I know that couldn’t have been easy. It might it had to be a skill. She was so resourceful. She would make something out of nothing. She made our underwear. Sewed, you know, by hand. Our clothes, you know, she sewed all our clothes by hand. She really made it work. And my dad was somebody who was a very proud man. He wanted, you know, the best of everything his money could buy. So he wanted hard food. His meat on one plate. His, like, the dashing and the yam and all that on a separate plate.
Paula: Oh my gosh.
Norma: Yeah, that’s what he wanted. And, you know, he didn’t care if my mom couldn’t make it happen. She had to, and she did. So just seeing how resourceful my mom was with the little she had and seeing my dad maximize what he had, I drew from both of those experiences and combined with my financial [00:06:00] education from working within the bank. And I survived through my situation as a single parent.
Paula: Wow. Great knowing your background, how you got there. So one of the things I noticed that stood out for me, but I like the name of your company, Think Like a Bank. I also like the fact that, you know, you’re both a money management and mental health consultant, but how do we beat banks at their own game?
Norma: So basically banks number one goal is to make a profit.
Paula: Yes.
Norma: And make a profit, they do. Now, from people like you and me, because when we, as you know, you put your money in the bank, it’s not just sitting there gathering interest. Banks use our money to buy financial products such as loans, credit cards, mortgages, and whatsoever else. When we borrow money, so for example, if you were to put 3,000 pounds in a bank and say, [00:07:00] you know, in your savings, it would earn what? 1%, 2 percent interest, but to draw out or to get a loan for that amount of money or a credit card, the credit cards are just all, you know, they’re just awful if you don’t know how to manage it. We’re talking about 18%, 20%, 24%.
Paula: Yes.
Norma: That’s how much you would have to, you know, percentage you would pay in interest and charges for using that money. So somebody with like a 3,000 pound credit card, if they’re only paying the minimum interest, that can take them up to 20 years, over 20 years to pay off. And the bank is racking up, right? Raking in all of that interest. So they’re using us. They’re using our money. So for me, I use their money. I use the same principle as them. I use a 0 percent credit card.
If your credit score is good, you can get a 0 percent credit card. And I teach people, a lot of people say, Oh, my credit’s not good, I’ll never be able to do that. I run a financial boot camp, and I teach you [00:08:00] all different financial principles, and that’s one of them to work on your credit score so that not only when you’re using credit, you get a good credit, and you know, you can use a 0 percent credit card, but if you want to get a mortgage or a credit card or a loan, and you’ve got a good credit score, then you will get financial products at a much lower interest rate than somebody whose credit score is not good. Does that make sense?
Paula: Absolutely. So with that said if one, because what about if you’re paying off your balance every month, like you have a credit card that has a 20 percent.
Norma: And you’re paying off every month and that’s fine. You’re not giving the bank any of your money because you’re not paying any interest. But I would say 65 to 70 percent of people have money on their credit card. So every month we’re in a cost of living crisis, people want to still live that Instagram lifestyle. They still want to live that lifestyle. You know, a lot of people, as you quite rightly said, my private practice is in Harley [00:09:00] Street, London, which is a renowned medical district of the world. So it’s where the rich and famous, the Queen, as you know, celebrities, everybody flies in to Harley Street to have any medical procedure from plastic surgery to psychotherapy. So I’m working with clients that have high net worth. And it truly really isn’t about how much you earn. It really isn’t. It’s not how much you have, how much you earn, it’s what you do with what you earn.
Because as you, as we all know, people are aware, people that earn a lot of money, they live that lifestyle. So they will live in the multi-million pound houses. They will drive the top of the range cars. The children will be in private school. All of that costs money. So by the time all of their outgoings have gone out of their account, they’re in the same situation as somebody that could be working in a supermarket. It’s just on a larger scale. And how do you think that affects their mental wellbeing? Because that’s the lifestyle they have, that’s the [00:10:00] image they have. I’ve worked with celebrities and the fear of not being able to continue to live that lifestyle is so powerful that it really does cause a lot of anxiety, a lot of stress, a lot of depression. Do you know what I mean? And as I said, it’s not about the money. 80 percent is about your psychology of money and I’ll get into that in a minute. And coupled with your financial education. 20 percent is about the money.
Paula: That’s a good one. 20 percent is about the money and 80 percent is about the education you have about money and your psychology.
Norma: Of money.
Paula: Wow. That’s a good one. So tell us about that. You said you’d get to that in a point in a minute.
Norma: So we all have our own individual psychology of money. And in a nutshell, your psychology of money is your beliefs, which influence your thoughts and your thoughts influence your actions about [00:11:00] saving, budgeting, spending and investing. So, for example, you’ve grown up in a household with siblings, right? Do you have siblings, Paula?
Paula: I’ve got the same amount of siblings as you do. My parents had six of us.
Norma: Exactly. Right. And I’m sure when you reflect on your siblings, although you was exposed to the same money experiences growing up, whether that was an abundance household or household of scarcity and lack, whatever the case may be, I’m sure that everybody would have processed it in an individual way. You might be, you know, a spender, another sibling might be frugal. So, how we internalize what we’ve been exposed to, that then shapes a pattern of our relationship with money and how we are with money. Now, I’m just baffled because I work with couples as well. Our couples come into my consultation room for financial therapy.
And when I ask them about their [00:12:00] experiences with money, so many people have experienced financial trauma and they’re not even aware of it. Being exposed to like the parents arguing about money, fighting about money. Do you know what I mean? And there’s always, all this stuff going on and they’ve absorbed all of that and then internalize it and then probably acting it out in their day to day life. They might just spend, I mean, I’ll give you an example. So one of the clients I was working with, it was a guy and he was in my financial boot camp and we started to work and then he started to get a bit. And so I took him aside and start to do some exploration with him. And I asked him, you know, what’s up, what’s going on for you?
Because obviously some things trigger people, you know? And so, he said when he was growing up, his mom used to after their evening meal, lock the kitchen door. And then In the morning, he would go to school. So I don’t know if she didn’t open up the kitchen door to give breakfast, but he said he used to go to school hungry. And as a result, he was so [00:13:00] angry with his mom for doing that to him, you know, and he had so much hatred towards his mom, unforgiveness towards his mom. And as a result, he was just spending everything. Anytime he got any money he was spending it because now he’s an adult he can, but he’s in a relationship and that now is affecting his relationship.
He’s not had this discussion with his partner so she don’t know what’s going on and you know money is one of the number one things that breaks down a relationship.
Paula: Yes, yes, yes.
Norma: So I said to him, have you spoken to your mom about this? He was too angry. But after a while, I started to work with him on a therapeutic level. He was able to go and ask his mom because I said to her, you know, although what she did was not right, it may be learnt behavior. It may be what she was exposed to that, you know, her mom did that not to, you know, to be cruel or anything, but just to preserve the food to ensure that at least. She could guarantee that her children would have one wholesome meal, you know, [00:14:00] I mean, I’m not condoning what she did, but I’m just trying to understand what may have happened.
But in order to find out what really was going on for your mom, you need to have that conversation. It took a while because obviously he’s had that within him for so long. And he did go and speak to his mom. And as I said, so it was.
Paula: Ah, she had.
Norma: That’s exactly what happened to her. So she thought she was doing a good thing by ensuring that the family was able to have one hot meal in the evening. But look how he internalized it and how traumatized he was from it, that he was such an angry person and angry in his relationship and his girlfriend was trying to understand what’s going on and he was screaming and shouting. It was awful. But after, you know, going through that therapeutic process, he felt vulnerable enough to go and have that conversation with his and that repaired their relationship.
Paula: That’s beautiful. So now I can see the [00:15:00] connection between you know, being a mental health consultant and being a money management consultant because then his attitude towards the money has changed and…
Norma: Absolutely.
Paula: Yeah and so he’s a much better steward of money now?
Norma: Absolutely. Definitely. You know it’s coming from a different perspective because you know through the therapeutic work we did I like to explain to him that was then where you never had no control over what was happening to you. Now you’re an adult that’s not happening to you anymore. You’re earning your own money for you to spend it how you will. So you’re making the decisions over your money. You’re empowered now to make those decisions. Nobody can do that to you ever again.
Paula: So true. So true. And so, I mean, you’re saving a generation.
Norma: Absolutely.
Paula: To go through him reliving his own life, early life experience and imposing it on them.
Norma: Absolutely. And so [00:16:00] many people live a repetitive generational trauma. They pass on generational because there hasn’t been any therapeutic intervention. People don’t have that self-awareness. We know the couples are arguing about money all the time. I see it all the time in my practice. So, you know, I have to, obviously work therapeutically to help them understand their own individual kind of psychology of money. What is yours? Cause most people don’t even know. And then once they…
Paula: I see.
Norma: Exactly. I asked people that it’s like, they’re looking at me like I’m blue. I mean, what are you asking me? You know? So most people don’t under know or understand what their own psychology of money. So that’s the starting point. And it takes work to understand. I was working with another guy from Ghana and he said he came from a big family and in Ghana it’s like a hierarchy so when it came to food and like he would get like the chicken back the cheapest part of the chicken where of the elders would get the best part of the chicken and so for him that was scarcity. So he had a [00:17:00] scarcity mindset and that’s how he was with his money and that for him that was so traumatic for him because people hold this trauma don’t they?
Paula: Yes, they do. They do.
Norma: So for me as a single mother, I know there’s so many people out and that’s why I’m so passionate about it. Can’t make ends meet. You know, they haven’t got enough money to come in and they don’t know how to manage it. And then how much stress does that put on a person on, you know, how does that affect you emotionally? You know, you’re feeling that, Oh you’re feeling that you’re failing. You’re not good enough. I can’t provide for my children. How does that affect your mental wellbeing?
Paula: Yes, you’re right. You’re right. So talk to me about how you encourage people to be financially savvy. I mean, now we’ve talked about the psychology and how, you know, once that’s overcome.
Norma: Yes.
Paula: Any hurdles with that overcome, then we can [00:18:00] become better stewards of money. How to become financially savvy.
Norma: Absolutely. Well, it really is. It really starts with knowing your numbers. What do I mean?
Paula: Knowing your numbers. Okay.
Norma: Absolutely. What do I mean by that? As I said, I run a financial bootcamp and one of the preparation strategies that I use is I ask people to send me their income and expenditure. Now, most people I’d say 80 percent of people just take it off the top of their head. And write it down. So when they get to the financial boot camp and I’ve taken through the techniques and the strategies of… because budgeting isn’t just income and expenditure, documenting that if it was that everybody doing it and there wouldn’t be a financial issue. But your budgeting is like the foundation. Mastering how to budget is a foundation of any money management practices.
So knowing your numbers, know exactly where every penny is going, how it’s going, [00:19:00] when it’s going, and where it’s going. A lot of people are giving your money an assignment. A lot of people, we live in a society where we’re governed and led by plastic. People are swiping left, right, and center. They go in their account one day and there’s hundreds of pounds in it, go back to that account a few days later, and they think their account’s been hacked. It’s been robbed. No, you’ve been spending money and now it’s just come out of your account. Do you know what I mean?
Paula: Yes.
Norma: I mean, it’s really sad. And I mean, in my boot camp today, the person that spent the most on eating out was eight hundred, I say dollars, I say in dollars, eight hundred dollars for the month. That’s not included.
Paula: Eight hundred dollars eating out.
Norma: Yes, that’s not including food shopping or anything. She thought it was about 200. It nearly brought tears to her eyes.
Paula: Whoa, whoa, whoa. So now at the end of the [00:20:00] day with the budget you were able to pinpoint to her where most of her money was going.
Norma: Absolutely. So obviously, I’ll take them through the exercises of just identifying, you know, putting your money into categories, you know, so for example, you know, people don’t have, with budgeting, you need micro budgeting. That’s one of the tools I help people build. So what do I mean by micro budgeting? So if you’ve got a food budget, I ask people, you know, do you have a budget for food? Do you have a budget for toiletries? Do you have a budget for socializing? They don’t. They might just say, well, I spend, you know, 100, but they would go over and spend 300 if you assign a certain amount of money in certain pockets, because a lot of banking apps now have all these tools to help people manage their money.
Where you can, you know, assign certain, you know, like a money for, you know, a budget for like, socializing. As I said, eating out, shopping, subscriptions, all. So you put certain amounts of money in these different pockets. [00:21:00] And, you know, you work out how much you need to for each thing and you stick to it. Once it’s gone, they will even tell you when you’re getting low on your pocket. That, you know, you’ve got X amount of money left tracking your money. People are not tracking their money.
Paula: People are not tracking their money, especially when they’re using the plastics, you just…
Norma: And it’s so, I’ll go back to psychological. It’s so easy to swipe the card then to depart with cash.
Paula: Yes. Yeah, you are absolutely right. Because I know from my personal experience for years, I didn’t carry cash when my children were younger, because I felt if I carried cash it would, I would be more readily spend cash that I personally would take out a card and swipe it, you know, yeah. Does that make sense? I mean to ask myself, but I never had cash on me primarily for that reason because I’d spend it. For [00:22:00] me personally, swiping a card meant I would see it show up on a statement and I could, and then of course the bank would categorize it into, you know, this was groceries. This was eating out. This was, you know, the movie theaters or whatever. And so that led me to go from cash to the plastic, as opposed to from plastic to cash because I couldn’t document my cash.
Norma: Right. Okay. And as I said, everybody has their own way, their own mindset of how they manage their money. And if it works for you, good. If it is not serving you, then you have to, you know, go back to the drawing board or get some help to make it make sense for you because you know, if you are in a relationship where you might be managing your money really well and how frustrating if you were somebody that’s frivolous with their money.
Paula: Yes. Yes, that’s really a bone of… can be a bone of contention between the two.
Norma: Absolutely. So knowing your numbers, when you know, I keep going back to psychology, but [00:23:00] when you know your numbers, for example, if you say, okay, I’ve got 200 pounds a month for groceries, you know, 50 pounds, 50 a week, I’m just using a figure, Psychologically, you know you’ve got that 50. You’ll be surprised how you start shopping and making sure you don’t go over that 50. But if there isn’t a budget for that, then you just spend about 60 one week, 80 another week, then you’re not being accountable with your money.
Paula: Yes. That’s a good one. How about, okay so you talked about doing your numbers, how about navigating debt? So you’re already in debt. How do you navigate out of that?
Norma: Right. Okay. So there’s various ways. I mean, for example, if you’re in like credit card debt, because there’s so many people in credit card debt, don’t know how to get out of it. The first thing to do is, I mean, a lot, and I found people are experts in their field, but when it comes to money, it’s almost like they regressed to like a childlike state because they don’t know where to begin. They don’t have the confidence in managing [00:24:00] their money, but navigating debt is especially if it’s like credit card debt. It’s about looking at the credit cards with the most APRs, the annual percentage rate, working with those. And, you know, so you might have free credit cards, one at 24%, one at 20%, one at 18%.
The 18 percent one may have more on it than the one with the 24%. But you’re paying more interest on the one for 24%. So for an example, what I teach people to do is to say you’ve got free credit cards that total like six thousand pounds. I would say, and you’re paying like, all together with the free credit cards, you’re paying like 150 pounds a month towards the free credit cards that you’re in debt with. I would say pay the minimum on the two credit cards with the less interest rate and put the majority, so if you’re paying 150 pounds over the free credit cards, I would say [00:25:00] pay a 120 – 125 on the one with the most with the highest interest rate and pay the minimum on the two less interest rate, the cards with the less interest rate.
Continue doing that until you pay off that first credit card. Once you pay off that first credit card, then that frees up that money. So instead of paying it over three credit cards, now you’ve got that money to pay over two credit cards. So you then go to the next credit card with the highest rate and you put the majority, that same 150 on that credit card and the minimum on the less, with the less interest rate and repeat that action. That is a good way of navigating debt.
Paula: So aim to pay off the one with the highest interest rate first.
Norma: Absolutely.
Paula: And then go to the one underneath that next one.
Norma: Absolutely.
Paula: So like if you had three, as you said, three credit cards, so the final one that you pay off would be the one with the least [00:26:00] amount of interest, because then you have that money and need to pull down that balance that you have accrued, interest that you’ve accrued on that by not paying.
Norma: Absolutely. And another way of navigating debt is, as I said, with credit cards. Again, I’ll talk about credit cards because that’s one of the biggest problems that I’m working with. A lot of people is working with a 0 percent credit card. So if you’re eligible for a 0 percent credit card, once you’re coming to the end of the term and you’ve still got a balance on it, then you do a balance transfer to another 0%. So you’re avoiding paying interest. You just try and you just keep repeating that pattern until you obviously are in a place where you’re out of debt, you know?
Paula: Yeah. That makes sense.
Norma: Because it’s about trying to minimize the money that you’re giving to the bank. People just say, okay, this is, I’m in this debt and I just, I’m paying what I can. It’s minimum payment and it’s revolving debt. It’s like you’re on a treadmill, but you’re not going anywhere. You’re paying this money and also with people with loans and that or mortgages about [00:27:00] refinancing, but you need like a financial advisor because it’s obviously they need to be advised to be able to get a better product if you can get a better product. So before you get a better product, it’s better best to work on your credit score so that your credit is in a good place so that when you do launch out to see if you can get a better rate for whatever financial product you’ve got, whether that’s a mortgage or a loan, whatever, you will get a better rate of interest and you’ll be paying the bank less interest.
So it’s about using those tips and tricks just to navigate your way. Because I don’t want to give the bank, I mean, I paid off one of our mortgages, a 25 year mortgage in 10 years.
Paula: Ooh.
Norma: By making overpayments, doubling up my payments on my mortgage to pay it off so that I, you know, I saved over 14, 000 pounds in interest.
Paula: So you paid it towards the capital or you’re putting it…
Norma: Towards the capital.
Paula: Okay. Because I had that discussion with some people who say, no, take it and pay it [00:28:00] towards the interest.
Norma: No.
Paula: The capital.
Norma: It’s the principal. That’s what you’re paying it to. That is what you’re paying the money to, to bring it down. So these are the ways that, you know, that you can navigate your debt. It’s all about thinking like a bank, because a bank, as I said, its number one goal is to make a profit. And they are making a profit from a lot of people that don’t know how to manage credit.
Paula: Yes.
Norma: That’s why when young people went to university, they was throwing those credit cards at them because they knew they was away from home, didn’t have the parental guidance and advice. They thought, I’ve never had this money before. They was maxing out those credit cards and the banks took advantage of that.
Paula: Great advantage of them. Whoa. Wow. So finally you talked about maximizing your money without a struggle. What do you mean by that?
Norma: Yeah, so when I was a single parent although I didn’t have much money, I maximized it. I made every penny and every pound or work [00:29:00] for me. And the reason I was able to do that is ’cause I was in control of my money. I knew where every penny and every pound was going. All the financial tycoons and the rich, the financially successful people have some sort of financial statement. They know where every pound and every penny was going.
I was watching a program called How The Other Half Live. And there was a self-made multimillionaire. He was worth like 66 million. And he used his 0 percent credit card to fly to Australia on a first class flight. And he was able to get a holiday from it using his credit card. And he’s a multimillionaire.
Paula: Ooh. So he bought the ticket. He bought the ticket with his credit card.
Norma: No, no . Because he had points because they give you different points. So obviously the more you use it, the more points you get, whatever. And, you know, he’s been traveling for a while. So he’s racking up air miles. So he’s maximizing the bank’s money, you know, [00:30:00] because, you know, he’s been able to, and he’s a multimillionaire. So how much more us? Absolutely. So with me, I knew exactly every pound and every penny I had. I mean, thankfully, when I was a single mother, I found a shop, a local supermarket that was quite, you know, on the lowest scale. And I was able to, like, buy all my weekly shopping for 20 for me and my three children. So me and my children were eating cream cheese and smoked salmon and bagels for breakfast.
Paula: By going to that, like a small…
Norma: Absolutely.
Paula: Supermarket.
Norma: We was like kings and queens and as I said, and… as I worked in the bank, every year we got a bonus, and I took that bonus, because I didn’t want my children to see, like, you know, we had to, you know, watching our pennies all the time. I wanted to be able to give them a balance. And as a result, the bonus that I got from my bank, I used that and flew my children out every year. [00:31:00] So as I said, you know, they would have their rucksacks filled to the brim. And it weren’t with electrical toys or dollies. It was with rice, biscuits, tea bags. Do you know what I mean? It was me being resourceful again, right?
Paula: Yeah.
Norma: So when we go to our destination, all we had to buy was meat and vegetables.
Paula: So you were going to like at out in those days, they probably didn’t have the Airbnb. So you were going to like a…
Norma: Apartments.
Paula: Apartments, yeah.
Norma: I could only afford hotels three star. I wouldn’t go any lower than three Star, but it was like three Star. So I had to do my own food. It was always apartments. Yeah. So I’d have to cook my own food, but that was okay. My priority and objective was to just fly my children out and show them what life can really be. So as I said, it weren’t like to holidays in England. It was like to the Caribbean and the whole of Europe, you know, you know, they really did have a quality of life. So I’ve done that. And people have seen what I’ve done in my life and done for my children [00:32:00] as a single mother. And that’s how I want to financially empower. It’s not what you have. It’s what you do with what you have. Knowledge is always required.
Paula: Yes, it’s what you do with what you have. Wow. Whoa, whoa. I always say this 30 minutes goes by so quickly and we’ve been talking for a little over 30 minutes. So this has been very helpful. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about what you do and how You can even help them. ’cause I know you have clients, but
Norma: Sure.
Paula: As a business owner, one is always looking for more clients.
Norma: Absolutely. So my website is my name Norma Cassius. I’m not sure if you could put that in the chat or whatever. normacassius.com. That’s my website and my Instagram handle is think.like.a.bank.
Paula: At [00:33:00] think.like.a.bank. Like that. That’s creative.
Norma: Yes, very much so. Very much so.
Paula: Are you on LinkedIn?
Norma: I’m on LinkedIn. And that’s Norma. Cassius.
Paula: Okay.
Norma: Norma Cassius. I mainly use Instagram at the moment. That’s where I am. So shoot me a DM if you need any information. If you wanted a consultation. Financial therapy is the thing for a lot of people. Just to get them, understand the psychology of money so they are in the right mindset to be able to manage their money. And, you know, not only teach them, but their family, their generation. We need to stop this. People of color, do you know what I mean, when it comes to money, I couldn’t sit down with my parents and discuss money. They would say that’s a big people’s business, right?
Paula: That’s not for you.
Norma: No, exactly. But we need to break that cycle. So break that generational trauma that, you know, we’ve been through a lot. As in our community, haven’t we? And we can break that through knowledge because knowledge is power and that’s what [00:34:00] i’m here to do to empower as many people as I can .
Paula: Yes, so, you know, we always have people that join the show and who are in the audience. They’ll have an opportunity to even ask you more questions about exactly what you talked about and you know how they can, you know, contact you because I know you’re global, even though you’re based in England, you can still talk with someone virtually and…
Norma: Absolutely.
Paula: Help them with whatever questions or difficulties they may have overcoming the trauma, the money trauma that they may have suffered in the youth. So we’ll definitely give them a chance to speak with you. And for those of you who are watching online this program. If you’d like to be a guest on my show, reach out to me on my website which is chattingwiththeexperts.com. I’m also on LinkedIn as Paula Okonneh. I’m on Instagram and my handle there is at [00:35:00] chat_experts_podcast and I always hesitate because for some reason my handle always confuses me, so I don’t want you guys confused.
And I’m on Facebook as Paula Okonneh. Thank you so much, Norma, for being on the show. And believe it or not, I got in touch with Norma because I listened to her on a podcast. And once I heard what she was talking about, I was like, Oh, I’d love to have her on my show. I reached out to her and she said, Yes. So please reach out to me because somebody may hear you on the podcast and your life story may change. Thank you, Norma.
Norma: You’re welcome.
Thank you.
Paula: Thanks to all who have listened and we are going to talk to you live to those who are in the audience. Thank you.