Tech Girl from Northern Kenya

[00:00:00] Paula: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts TV show with me Paula Okonneh, the host. Every week I bring to you a woman from Africa, the Caribbean, who is a professional or an entrepreneur. And the mission and the purpose of this show is that at the end of [00:01:00] the show, whoever listens to it or watches it should leave having learned something or haven’t been inspired or educated on something that they didn’t know before.
[00:01:13] Paula: This week, we’re going to be talking about cybersecurity and my guest is from Northern Africa. So I’ve given you a hint. She is a cyber security expert and she’s skilled in keeping digital stuff safe from online threats. And she does this with coding skills and with a smart approach. She loves staying on top of things. And she plays a key role in making sure online things are kept secure. So I told you my guest is from Northern Kenya. Her name is Maribor Orre. And so with that, I want to [00:02:00] welcome Maribor to chatting with the experts. It’s always good to have someone from a different part of the world a different part of Africa from where I have normally interviewed people.
[00:02:16] Paula: So thank you for saying yes.
[00:02:18] Maribor: Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure chatting with you.
[00:02:22] Paula: Sure. I introduced you as cyber security expert, or at least you are in cyber security. And I also told our guests, our visitors, our viewers that you are from Northern Kenya.
[00:02:36] Maribor: Yes, I am.
[00:02:38] Paula: So tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:02:39] Paula: How did you get here to the States and cyber security? I’m so thrilled to have you talk about that, but it’s interesting to have you in cyber security.
[00:02:50] Maribor: Yes, I am. Thank you for having me again. I am originally from northern Kenya, and I went to an undergrad [00:03:00] university in Kenya where I got a scholarship to do applied computer technology, which was mostly programming, and it was such an amazing opportunity, and if not for the diversity scholarship, which was actually a scholarship meant for kids or like kids that came from marginalized community, which I am from a marginalized community.
[00:03:21] Maribor: And I say this because very few women are accomplished. We have one lawyer. We don’t have a doctor yet. And the last time I checked, I was the only lady who was in tech from my community. And I was glad to get that opportunity. And after I graduated Undergraduate degree, I went to work for a software development company, which I was a developer. We did a lot of coding, offered services to banks. But as much as IT is interesting, coding wasn’t for me. I am the kind of person who likes solving [00:04:00] problems and I like keeping people and things safe. And while I was in the company, the company was hacked and a lot of people lost their jobs from the situation because either they were suspects or a lot of money was just lost.
[00:04:16] Maribor: And I was like, I need to get into cybersecurity. And I started looking for opportunities on how to do that. And by then a friend of mine started a startup company, two of my friends started a startup company. And it was I started checking stuff out and I have, I got luckily there was a university that came to Kenya at the time and they were trying to do get students to come to the US and I looked at their course catalog and I saw cyber security and I didn’t think twice and I enrolled in the program and that’s how I got to the US.
[00:04:51] Paula: Wow, Maribor. That is a success story in itself. That’s how you got to the U. S., because you didn’t see too many [00:05:00] people interested in, or you saw cyber security offered, and that was something that piqued your interest. And that’s something that we all need these days. Recently there was a huge breach. And some people are calling it the mother of all breaches or the mother of all hacking or something like that.
[00:05:19] Maribor: Yeah.
[00:05:20] Paula: That’s one reason that I have you here. So how do we keep ourselves safe in this world of tech that we live in?
[00:05:26] Maribor: First of all, sadly, whenever a breach happens or information leaking or any sort of cyber security event that takes place or security event that takes place, it always starts with the least person that is non-tech. A secretary or just an employee, and there’s something called social engineering or phishing in cyber security where an email link will be sent to your email or a text message with a link will be sent and someone will just click on the link and the next thing you know, your [00:06:00] system is under-attack.
[00:06:02] Maribor: So when it comes to cyber security, yes, there is the deep-level hacking and stuff like that. But mostly it comes from people not knowing or people not taking this thing seriously because you’ll get a call of someone telling you like, Hey, this is your bank. We need this and this details to make sure that this and this happens in your account. And people don’t take a second to think like, why is my bank calling me to ask me of the details that they have in their system? Or they’ll come up with a story of about your daughter being in, in something that’s actually related to you and they’ll say all this information, but people panic and you start giving out your information.
[00:06:44] Maribor: The next thing you know, your money is gone or your information is out there. So those are the reasons that I feel like everybody needs to know the basics of keeping themselves safe and I can list a couple of ways you [00:07:00] can do that as non-tech person because it always starts from, it’s every individual responsibility to make sure that they are safe. Because, the banks is not with you all the time. The companies that offer these services are not with you all the time. So as an individual, we also have responsibility of playing a key role on keeping ourselves safe.
[00:07:24] Paula: I agree. So there’s a personal responsibility. We should become our own personal cyber security, in quotes, experts, for little things. As you said, the phone call, like I got a call and the caller ID said Bank of America. And I’m thinking, okay, Bank of America, why are you calling me? And then the person says, oh, we need to update something on your account. I’m like, okay. And the next thing she says, so what’s your name? I’m like, if you called me.
[00:07:49] Paula: And you want to update my account or tell me something about my account and you don’t know my name, then obviously something’s amiss and so I put the call, I mean I ended the call and blocked the number, [00:08:00] but it’s simple things like that, right?
[00:08:02] Maribor: Yes.
[00:08:04] Paula: So we have to become our own personal cyber security experts.
[00:08:09] Maribor: Yeah, we have to.
[00:08:11] Paula: So what would you recommend because you said you could give me a list or give us a list.
[00:08:16] Maribor: There are four ways that I can advise any person non -tech experts. First of all, if you are using any device that has to do with, internet of things, routers, all these device, they come with a manufacturer’s, login credentials. And when you install these devices in the house, a lot of people don’t change those. passwords because a lot of them actually come with, a strong password. It has special characters, capital letters. It’s impressive. But the manufacturers, they manufacture millions and millions of these devices.
[00:08:53] Maribor: And you can go online and Google passwords for these things. And it’s there. And the next thing, you get hacked and you wonder [00:09:00] Oh, I thought this thing had a strong password. So my advice is Anytime you get a router or any type of Internet of Things device, make sure you change the password. Make sure you change it.
[00:09:13] Paula: All right. Okay. That’s a very good tip because as you rightfully say, if someone I move or I get a new router, I’m assuming that the password that looks so complicated can never be guessed, but you’re saying that these are just generic passwords, correct?
[00:09:31] Maribor: Yes, they are. Yeah, second tip is whenever you get a text, an email or a phone call that’s asking you with a link, don’t click it. I know of a friend of mine, it was even in the news that their department got hacked because a link came with a price saying that, hey, click this link and you’ll get this award and stuff. And this lady, she was an older lady in the company, and she clicked the [00:10:00] link, and the next thing you know, they’re under attack. Yeah, don’t click on links, don’t respond to phone calls that ask you of too much details of people you don’t know. And if it’s a bank or anything or medical or stuff, whenever they call you, just walk down to the, if you are doubtful about the situation, like just walk to the bank or to the hospital and say, Hey, I got this call from you guys. And it says this and this just confirm you rather use that little energy to walk to somewhere than getting into crisis that you could have avoided in the first place.
[00:10:38] Paula: Okay. But suppose you can’t walk to that place. Can you, if…
[00:10:41] Maribor: you can call the bank.
[00:10:42] Paula: Call the bank with the number you have.
[00:10:44] Maribor: Yes, you can call. The details are online, the legit details. You can call. You have the contacts of your bank. You can just hang up on the person and call the bank and they will, always confirm and social security officers. There’s just a [00:11:00] lot of ways that people target people out here.
[00:11:04] Paula: Yeah.
[00:11:05] Maribor: Yes. And then the other thing is change your passwords occasionally. Even your ATM cards, your credit cards debit cards in a couple of months, just go and switch them up. Just change them out. You never know, who has your information out there. That’s what I do. Like I’ll go to the bank and I’m like, Hey, I’ve stayed with this card too long, but I’ve travelled a lot in and out of the country. You will use to pay for something at a grocery store or at somewhere.
[00:11:35] Maribor: And there are devices that people actually put in those machines that just record people’s details. And they are there. I was shocked one day when I was in my neighborhood and the police officer showed me a device and he was like, can you imagine I removed this from a 7 Eleven? I was like, what is that? And he was like, people put these devices on top of the paying machine. And once you [00:12:00] insert your cards, they collect your details. And the next thing somewhere is doing big purchases from Best Buy or Amazon with your card. And you don’t know. And also on that note, it’s always good to put a lot in your cards, in your in your system, in case of anything, you get a text message notifying Hey, this, and this was locked on from somewhere that, and it’s not you. So all those are the things that can keep us safe in day to day of our lives here.
[00:12:32] Paula: Yeah. You said something interesting apart from changing passwords frequently, like for some of our online accounts, you said actually change out the physical debit card or change out the physical
[00:12:45] Paula: credit card.
[00:12:46] Maribor: Yes.
[00:12:48] Paula: Wow.
[00:12:48] Maribor: After a couple of months, especially if you use your credit cards a lot, or you travel a lot, you don’t know which, systems you have used to pay for your needs [00:13:00] and you don’t know who has this information of you. So it’s just good to switch it up.
[00:13:06] Paula: Yep. Never thought about the physically changing out the card. I thought of changing passwords, but now that’s a very valid point. What about, okay, as you said, so I noticed that some financial institutions allow you to have virtual cards. It could be a virtual debit card, a virtual credit card. Is that a way around? It’s linked to your actual card. But instead of giving them, let’s say, instead of putting your actual credit card or debit card number. These are for online things, of course you can give them a virtual one.
[00:13:40] Maribor: Yes that’s actually a little bit more safer compared to inserting cards into system. I always meet people, you’re behind the line in the thing and they don’t want to use Apple Pay because I don’t know, or, Google Pay they feel it’s… but to my opinion it’s actually safer to do that, ’cause you don’t have to insert into [00:14:00] the system and, or when you go to pay for your gas at the gas pumps and stuff like that, you don’t have to insert, you just tap and it’s way safer.
[00:14:10] Paula: Wow, but that’s good to know because I’m one of those who are a bit wary of Google Pay and Apple Pay, like you go to the grocery store, even a gas station, and they said, just tap. I’m like now, if I just tap this, how am I sure that I wouldn’t hear later on now that this has happened, that Apple hasn’t been hacked? So I now just tapped and immediately gave them all my information that they’re keeping on the cloud somewhere. Yeah. Those are the things that go through my mind.
[00:14:38] Maribor: Yeah. But everything apart from God, everything has mistakes, in life. And sometimes you can take benefit of the doubt and technology is evolving. Things that are here in 2024, if you look like three years back the line, they are not there. And with COVID, I feel like [00:15:00] people being, at home, people became very creative with a lot of things. Yeah, it’s good to take a leap of faith and in my opinion, but whatever you feel works for you and has been working for you, you can stick to that. But it wouldn’t hurt if once in a while do something that is more innovative and see how it goes for you.
[00:15:22] Paula: Oh, yeah, you’re right. So let’s come back to like things that people do all the time, like you travel and now you’re in the airport, you’re in your hotel and let’s talk about the airport or even hotels where they say free Wi Fi. Is that something you recommend? I don’t do that.
[00:15:39] Maribor: I use free Wi Fi, but I use something called VPN.
[00:15:43] Paula: What’s that?
[00:15:43] Maribor: VPN means Virtual private network. It gives you access to public network, but in a safer way. There’s a whole, complicated explanation behind it, but mostly it gives you a tunnel [00:16:00] that is safer for you to access unsafe sites.
[00:16:05] Paula: Okay, so it’s like a tunnel through, like they said, there’s a big road, it’s almost like you’re tunneling and that tunnel is secure, so they can’t see the traffic going back and forth, correct?
[00:16:15] Maribor: Yes. Most people use the Mac Pro like Apple product or Microsoft. I know that’s a lot of products that people that are non-tech use mostly. And personally, I have Antivirus I installed in my computer that instructs my computer schedules, like every 9pm do a scan in my system. And you pay for it, yes, but I feel like it’s much more safer if I pay 20 a month for, for my system to be secure than not get the service and end up being hurt in more ways than I can imagine. It’s always good to put antivirus in [00:17:00] your computer. That’s also another way you can secure your system without having to be non-tech. You can go to, if you’re not a tech person, you can go to somewhere like Best Buy. They can provide a service, give you an antivirus that you can purchase and put in your system.
[00:17:17] Maribor: And a lot of this antivirus, they come with the web protection, they come with the VPN service and they come with just scanning in your system so you can do like full scan to make sure that an entity shows you like, Hey, these files are vulnerable. They’re not attacked yet, but they can easily be attacked.
[00:17:39] Paula: High risk, in other words.
[00:17:41] Maribor: Yes.
[00:17:42] Paula: Yeah. Wow. Okay, so it is good to have an antivirus system purchased, or you can purchase it physically from a store, like they say Best Buy or would you recommend you could buy it online?
[00:17:55] Maribor: Yes. You can also buy it online.
[00:17:57] Paula: Okay. But, even online, again, you see so many people [00:18:00] offering things, would you say go with the known names? Like I know
[00:18:03] Maribor: Yes. Go with something that is common that everyone uses, because as I say, people are innovative. There’s someone who put something down and you’re like, Oh, this is cheap. Let me go for this, but cheap is expensive. So just go with, something that is known by everyone else. So in case of a malfunction, you actually can reach the manufacturer.
[00:18:25] Paula: Okay. Alright, social media.
[00:18:30] Maribor: Yes.
[00:18:31] Paula: How secure is that? Because you see people put in all sorts of stuff. Should we be aware of privacy there? Is that something, because I know a lot of young people, not so young people, older people are on social media. Isn’t that another cyber security in quotes? Has it?
[00:18:54] Maribor: So a lot of… I personally am not a fan of social media. [00:19:00] And I stopped using social media firstly, because, it’s the time. It needs a lot of energy for you to be in a social media past in my opinion. And secondly time it’s time consuming, but there are people I know who get their living out of social media. And they don’t put it out there, but I know crimes have spiked through social media because people put a lot of information out there. Nowadays, you can’t even ask someone like, Hey, how are you doing? What have you been up to? You just check their status and you know what they have been doing, because every second people put a lot of unnecessary information out there. So my advice is, put as… you can do your videos but when it comes to your private information, try to make sure that you keep yourself safe from physical threats from, online threats. [00:20:00]
[00:20:02] Paula: Try to keep yourself safe. And that trickles down to children.
[00:20:07] Maribor: Yes.
[00:20:08] Paula: I know that there is software that protects children because they are online hazards.
[00:20:16] Maribor: There are softwares, yes. As I mentioned, I have a 10-year-old, and all my devices, I have blocked any content that is for a grown up. As a parent, you have to be aware of these things. So you make sure there is the parental guidance and stuff, but there’s also settings in your computer when, you can make sure that some content your kids cannot get access to. And then, after putting the settings, then you put the passcode so that they don’t go and change because kids nowadays, they are super smart.
[00:20:50] Paula: I was about to say that. These kids are smart.
[00:20:54] Maribor: And they are smart.
[00:20:55] Paula: Yes, they are digital natives. This is almost like how do you keep [00:21:00] one step ahead of your kids, because what you may think you know they go to school or they mix up with other children who are just as smart or whose parents may not be protecting them the way you are. Yes. That in itself is a problem.
[00:21:13] Maribor: Yeah, it’s a responsibility as a parent to know what your kids are watching what they’re doing and how to make sure you go the extra step to make sure that they don’t access content that they are not supposed to access. I know a lot of parents, we give our kids like these devices to keep themselves busy. I am in tech, yes, but my daughter, I give her Amazon Kindle, which is a Kindle from Amazon, where you can program it in such a way that she watches only. She’s a 10 year old, so anything 10 and below. Yeah. And then I have an ac it has a passcode. In case she needs a game, I have to log in, download it for her, and then give it to her. I can get that Kindle and just give it to her without [00:22:00] programming all that, but I am in tech. I know what’s out there. Internet is good and bad. Until she gets to an age when she’s a grown up enough to know. That she can access what she can. It’s our responsibility as parents to be sure of what our kids are watching.
[00:22:18] Paula: I agree. So how do we educate? I guess it starts with us educating ourselves. Because I know, I’m familiar with a lot of parents who say, they’re more savvy, they’re more tech savvy than I. They’re digital savvy. I have to call them to do everything. So if you are calling them to do everything for you digitally or technically, Then there are many steps ahead of you.
[00:22:42] Maribor: Yes.
[00:22:42] Paula: So I guess, would you suggest to me that we do more?
[00:22:47] Maribor: Okay. It depends on where someone is, but you can always go to someone who is more tech savvy than you. That is not your child. You have a friend who knows, more tech stuff than [00:23:00] you do. You have all these shops or whatever, if you’re in Africa or here, you have places like Best Buy. You can just go. They have a Geek Scores or just people who are dedicated to helping people when it comes to their devices. Just ask them like, hey, I have this device that my child used to play games or watch stuff. Can you program it in such a way that they can’t access content that’s beyond their age? It’s always good to take an extra step.
[00:23:26] Paula: Yeah, so you said a very key point. You mentioned if we’re talking… you and I in the U. S. So if you’re in the U. S., you can go to Geek Squad, which is in Best Buy.
[00:23:34] Maribor: Yes.
[00:23:35] Paula: If you’re not, let’s take like where you’re from.
[00:23:38] Maribor: Okay, if you’re from a village like I was from, there’s always someone who is more advanced when it comes to IT or even your friends, like your neighbor or someone just ask Hey, I want to do this, but I’m not sure how I’m going to do it. And I don’t want to give my child cause they might do the opposite. So do you know somebody or can you help me do this? [00:24:00]
[00:24:01] Paula: That’s great advice. Wow. So another question I have is about data backup. We have all these systems that say, okay backup online. Oh, so there’s manual backup and there’s the online backup. And I know it’s not if technology is going to fail you, it’s when. It’s not if. Just doing this show, it failed. So we’re familiar with that. So can you talk a little bit about data backup?
[00:24:31] Maribor: Okay. Yeah. There is an online, like you can do it via cloud. You can log into a cloud like I know. Let’s just take like basic. If you go to your phone, we have the Google photos where you can do backup, go through Google. There’s of course Amazon, there’s all this. But you can also just do the old school way where you buy a hard drive or a USB thumb drive, and you can just insert and [00:25:00] back up your data. There is that way.
[00:25:02] Maribor: And there’s always true online services. Some of these services like Google, I know they have up to certain limit of memory. So then from there you purchase, if you say they give you like 20 GB, so you can use that to back up your data. And then if you go beyond 20, then you can purchase more space. And it’s really actually nice because I’ve changed phones a lot in the last couple of years and I have photos that I took over 10 years ago or contacts of people that I haven’t spoken like in a while or it’s really impressive. So it’s always good to back up your data because you can lose your device. You can damage your device in one way or another. And it’s always smart to back up your data.
[00:25:55] Paula: Yeah that’s true. Because I’m in tech too, there are things that worry me. For [00:26:00] example, I’ll give you a classic example, WhatsApp. I’m sure you’re familiar and most of us who have relatives that are abroad use WhatsApp to keep in touch, send pictures, keep in touch, generally. And WhatsApp always says, everything is encrypted. Your conversation is encrypted. But recently I noticed two things about WhatsApp. They’re adding a lot more programs to WhatsApp. And I started to think everything is supposed to be encrypted. Once you start adding more things, you’re opening up your door, you’re opening up opportunities for the encryption to be not encrypted.
[00:26:41] Maribor: Yes.
[00:26:43] Paula: So I worry about that. I also worry too, I noticed that WhatsApp, you can backup WhatsApp to Google. How safe is that? So we’re talking about some very common communication software that we, most of us use, especially if you have [00:27:00] family abroad, we use WhatsApp. And I noticed recently that WhatsApp has added, I guess it’s enhanced, updated one, has so many different, they have channels you can use, you can you can get AI. You can enable AI to help, to be on WhatsApp. And I just wondered, and this may not be a question you can answer, how secure is that? If everything is supposed to be encrypted, we have all these additional channels, how safe is that really for those of us who use it?
[00:27:31] Maribor: WhatsApp is safe and it’s true. They have added a lot of things like, you get to follow people that you like. And yeah, I’m not a fan of it because I thought it’s just more of a simple communication where you can communicate with your family, not through audio video or just chat messages. And it was really fun. But now you get all these added things people can be able to [00:28:00] do it, but… so encryption is a way of keeping things secure. And it’s also complicated on how it works. That’s also deep in tech, but mostly it just sends. If I send you a message, there is a whole, keys being exchanged in between us. And then when you receive the message, it’s only you who can be able to open it. So to me, WhatsApp, it’s safe. It’s just that they have added a lot of, things that I don’t feel that we need to use it because Instagram is doing that, Facebook is doing that, and WhatsApp was just meant to be a simple communication. We don’t need to follow people. On WhatsApp, we do that on these other, social media applications.
[00:28:46] Paula: I agree with you, Maribor. I agree. I was like, this was a nice, simple,
[00:28:52] Maribor: Yeah.
[00:28:53] Paula: Tool for communicating. Why all these additional things? That’s why I liked WhatsApp, because it wasn’t Facebook. [00:29:00] I could talk to you privately, and I didn’t have to be on Facebook to talk with you.
[00:29:06] Maribor: Yeah.
[00:29:07] Paula: And oh boy. I could talk with all my guests. I’m always so intrigued by what they do that I could talk with them for hours. But what’s one last tip that you can leave for those of us, or for our listeners, that they can take away from, in terms of keeping themselves safe online.
[00:29:29] Maribor: Just be aware of the situations around you and don’t be ignorant, don’t see a message or don’t see an email and just click on it, because it has all these promising things written in it. So just be aware of the situation, even as you spend time on social media. You can use that social media because there is a lot of educative stuff that happens through social media that you can get knowledge from it. And my other advice I want to tell women [00:30:00] out there, black women out there or any woman for that matter is I came from a very humble background and I wouldn’t change a thing about that but you work hard and don’t ever let anybody tell you can’t do it.
[00:30:19] Maribor: I believe that anything you keep your mind in, you can achieve it. It will take hard work and it will take dedication. But anything you want to do in life, God first. I’m a Christian. I believe in a bigger power than me. Pray about it and just work hard. Give it an hour or two of your day. I know life is busy everywhere. We run up and down. But if you want to do something that you’re really passionate about, work towards it. Give it a little time every day, and at the end, you’ll see results.
[00:30:56] Paula: I say amen to that. I’m a Christian too. [00:31:00] And with God, all things are possible. You’ve got to do the work, but believe He can help you, and He will.
[00:31:09] Maribor: Amen.
[00:31:11] Paula: So I know that you’re not online, but if anyone was just interested in knowing more about you, I know when I say you’re not online, you’re not on social media.
[00:31:21] Maribor: I use LinkedIn.
[00:31:22] Paula: I was about to say, I’m sure you are on LinkedIn though.
[00:31:25] Maribor: Yeah, I’m on LinkedIn. I just, when social media, the Facebook and Instagram and that I am not. But at some point, I’ll want to create a profile because I have a lot of business ideas and, NGOs that I want to work with. So yeah, I know it will reach a time I’m going to use it, but right now I’m just working on a lot of stuff that I need to focus on.
[00:31:48] Paula: Absolutely. And so folks, wasn’t she amazing? Didn’t you learn a lot? I promised you that you would end. After listening to this, you’ll walk away and learn and [00:32:00] having learned something or being inspired and she did inspire us and encouraged, and educated on some topic that in this case, it’s cyber security, some topic that we all need to know about me included. And for those of you who would like to be a guest on my show, you can reach out to me on my website, which is called Chatting with the Experts. Oh, you can get in touch with me on LinkedIn. Just search for Paula Okonneh and I’m actually on Instagram. My handle there is at chat_experts_podcast. And of late, I’ve started venturing out onto Facebook. If you search for Paula Okonneh on Facebook, you’ll find me there. Facebook was something that I was not really that comfortable with but I’m making an exception these days.
[00:32:59] Paula: This is [00:33:00] 2024. So similar to Maribor who says at some point she’s going to get on to one of the social media platforms other than LinkedIn. I’m doing that this year with Facebook. Thank you again Maribor Orre for coming on to Chatting with the Experts. You were great. Thank you.